Linux-Advocacy Digest #633, Volume #29 Fri, 13 Oct 00 14:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Astroturfing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
(=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: David T. Johnson lies again ("David T. Johnson")
Re: Linux Sucks (Roberto Teixeira)
Re: Astroturfing ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: David T. Johnson lies again ("David T. Johnson")
Re: Linux Sucks ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Astroturfing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:37:21 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Weevil in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...trolling in denial of DR-DOS FUD...]
>There was, it must be admitted, a suspicion among some people (myself
>included) that Microsoft had done something to deliberately make Windows
>incompatible with DR DOS.
I recall having gone through this personally. Our four man office was
using about eight PCs and two Macs (we were a PC training company, and
that doesn't include the lab systems). Having followed the thing in the
PC rags and watched DR-DOS drive innovation and development in DOS, I
tried Windows (both 3.0 and 3.1, IIRC, and I'm not sure if the 3.1 was a
beta, nor if I got the message; after reading so much about it I don't
trust the recollection I have that I saw the FUD message in question, at
that time). It seemed to run perfectly fine, but I knew damn well that
Microsoft *would* do something to deliberately make Windows incompatible
eventually, if people didn't buckle under and follow The Microsoft Way.
If not for this move, DR-DOS would have been widely used, to be sure; it
was indeed a superior product. Microsoft's only [anti-]"competitive"
advantage, seriously, was the pre-load monopoly; they hadn't yet built
the Windows Application Barrier.
Even I was skeptical, at the time, of course, and considered it possible
that Microsoft was just 'playing hardball' (the 'we don't *have* to
support someone else's product' posturing), but in retrospect (and
certainly given the internal communications which supports the facts,
which were not entirely known at the time) to defend this behavior, or
mitigate the gravity of it, let alone through empty pretenses of base
ignorance and obfuscation is to demonstrate a complete lack of ability
to think objectively about the matter, quite honestly. Simon
demonstrates what I've suspected all along in his exchange with you,
Weevil. He is either dishonest, or just not very bright.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:37:06 GMT
1. Proof, in writing (I'm not disagreeing, I would just like to see
some proof).
2. If #1 is true, how do I collect my money?
claire
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:32:54 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> The black helicopters are coming for you right now.
>>
>
>It's well known that Microsoft pays people to post FUD to this newsgroup.
>
>
>> claire
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:47:08 +0100, Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >What are the chances that a company as PR aware as Microsoft would allow
>> >these advocacy forums to exist with astroturfing them? Pretty close to
>> >zero I would say.
>> >
>> >So given that there must be astroturfers here how would we spot them?
>> >- Not having a real job to go to they make lots of posts.
>> >- They are technically competent on MS stuff (not wizards, but
>> >competent).
>> >- They use the standard bullet-points and marketing buzzwords that look
>> >a bit out of place in an informal Usenet post, so that they read like
>> >advertising copy. (like "Advantages to the business", and "Fortune
>> >500")
>> >- Talks up Windows 2000 a lot (because it's the latest upgrade and MS
>> >lives on upgrades)
>> >- Defends MS when anyone says "anti-trust".
>> >- Has a slightly salesman feel about them.
>> >- Doesn't directly attack Linux, but makes sly comments like ("great for
>> >mom-and-pop operations cutting costs")
>> >
>> >Any others?
>> >
>> >So who are the astroturfers? Obviously Mike Byrns, but who else?
>> >---
>> >Nick
>> >
>> >
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:55:35 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>BTW; here's the official Microsoft line on it, from Dr. Dobb's Journal,
>Jan94, Letters.
>
>"
>Dear DDJ,
>
>The lawyers have finally given me the green light to describe why the MS-DOS
>detection code discussed in the article "Examining the Windows AARD
>Detection Code" by Andrew Schulman (DDJ, September 1993) was in the
>Christmas beta. I hope you will keep an open mind, listen to the truth, and
>accept it. It may not make such good press, but sometimes the truth is like
>that.
>
>It has never been a practice of this company to deliberately create
>incompatibilities between Microsoft system software and the system software
>of other OS publishers.[...]
This is a false statement.
"Immediately following DR DOS 5.0's release, Microsoft began telling
industry press that Microsoft would impede DR DOS' ability to be
compatible. For example, Microsoft's outside public relations firm,
Waggener Edstrom, reported it would meet with "a lot of editors"
regarding MS-DOS 5.0 in 1990, and:
informally* plant the bug of FUD in their ears. Have you heard about
problems with DR DOS? Ö We'll do this very tactfully. If Digital
Research came to Microsoft for help making DR DOS work with Windows,
would Microsoft help them? Maybe not? "
http://www.drdos.com/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html
[All quotes Ibid.]
>Microsoft does not test Windows on anything other than Microsoft's MS-DOS.
This is an admission of the technical inferiority of Microsoft's
products, which are expected to be tested with common consumer
requirements. It is also a false statement.
"It's pretty clear we need to make sure Windows 3.1 only runs on top of
MS DOS or an OEM version of it. I checked with legal, and they are
working up some text we are suppose to display if someone tries to setup
or run Windows on a alien operating system. We are suppose to give the
user the option of continuing after the warning.
However, we should surely crash at some point shortly later. Now to the
point of this mail. How shall we proceed on the issue of making sure Win
3.1 requires MS DOS. We need to have some pretty fancy internal checks
to make sure we are on the right one. Maybe there are several very
sophisticated checks so that competitors get put on a treadmill. Aaronr
[Aaron Reynolds] had some pretty wild ideas after 3 or so beers, earleh
has some too. We need to make sure this doesn't distract the team for a
couple of reasons 1) the pure distraction factor 2) the less people know
about exactly what gets done, the better."
>During the developing of Win 3.1, a great deal of thought was given to ways
>to reduce the high support burden associated with Windows. During the betas,
>we got a few bug reports about Windows not working correctly on some of the
>MS-DOS imitations. So it seemed like a very small portion of the market
>might have problems running Win 3.1 on something other than genuine MS-DOS.
>In order to be fair and up-front with them, we considered that it might be a
>good idea to let them know[...]
This is a false statement.
"Uhmm . . . denying DRI the VxD smells of an antitrust lawsuit. You're
not supposed to use your control of one market, in this case Windows, to
influence another market, in this case DOS. Err something like that.
I think this will blow up if we don't give them the VxD."
[...]
>The wording of the message that was displayed if something other than MS-DOS
>was detected in the Christmas beta has been the subject of accusatory
>speculation. Our intention for the final release was to warn the user that
>Windows (and that includes all Windows components) is being run on a system
>we have not tested. The message in the beta, however, was carefully crafted
>to produce a desired effect. [...]
"Microsoft intended that the message would make PC users and OEMs think
the problem was DR DOS. Asked "what the guy is supposed to do" when he
sees the non-fatal error the message, Silverberg responded:
What the guy is supposed to do is feel uncomfortable, and when he has
bugs, suspect that the problem is DR DOS and then go out to buy MS-DOS.
Or decide to not take the risk for the other machines he has to buy for
in the office."
It worked, and Microsoft ended up paying an unspecified ('speculated' at
$275 Million, it wouldn't surprise me if it was $2 Billion, and is
undisclosed) amount to Caldera in order to avoid a certain conviction in
a jury trial, I hear.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:58:56 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Weevil in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>I tell ya, the human brain is an amazing thing.
Damn, Weevil. You have me downright impressed.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:02:06 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Weevil in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>
>2 + 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8s3sja$oau$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >Almost every sentence Silverberg wrote is a lie, has been proven to be a
>> lie
>> >by his own emails and memos.
>>
>> So let's see them.
>>
>> 2 + 2
>>
>
>Me: Bill Gates ate a banana.
>
>Typical Microsoft Apologists: Oh god, here comes the fruit theory again.
>
>Me: It's documented history.
>
>TMA: Show the documentation. Until you do, you're just blowing smoke.
>
>Me: Here's a private email from Bill to Steve Ballmer where he discusses
>his plan to eat a banana.
>
>TMA: Idle talk in email. Proves nothing. Obviously, you don't know
>anything about how executives discuss fruit in private.
>
>Me: Here's another email AFTER he ate the banana, telling Ballmer how good
>it was.
>
>TMA: Hearsay. Out of context.
>
>Me: What, you want a video of him eating the damn banana? Well, not every
>second of every day of his life is recorded. You have to be able to
>interpolate a LITTLE bit.
>
>TMA: Right. Just as we thought. No evidence.
>
>Me: Here's a lab report of Bill Gates' stomach contents the day after he
>ate the banana. Sure, you can't actually see anything that looks like a
>banana in the photo because it's been obfuscated and encrypted, and Bill
>drank a chemical that caused the banana remains to mutate whenever they were
>observed by anyone. But luckily, a couple of brilliant chemists were able
>to detect it anyway.
>
>TMA: Prove it.
>
>Me: Here's their report.
>
>TMA: And here is Bill Gates' official response.
>
>Me: Yes, and? He ATE THE FUCKING BANANA YOU NITWITS!
>
>TMA: Typical Microsoft hater. Loses the argument, resorts to profanity and
>ad hominem attacks.
>
>Me: Steve Ballmer ate a plum.
>
>TMA: Prove it.
You are fucking killing me, Weevil! I've been sitting here laughing for
ten minutes. My stomach hurts from it! That was hilarious!
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:59:02 +0200
JS/PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree.
> Apple makes an excellent computer "prop". Like those cardboard TV's down at
> the furniture store.
> On another front, since hardly anyone uses them, it's much easier to pass
> off a bogus GUI for the movie viewer to follow. Some of them are quite
> ridiculous. Like the one where the "runner" logs onto the internet and the
> "chaser" sitting at his own computer suddenly knows the location of the
> runner, complete with a real-time satellite video feed of said runner (1500
> miles away). Then just by coincidence there's 40 secret troops in complete
> uniform and weaponry ready to chase the runner who's (by some incredible
> stroke of luck) located just a block away from them.
No, the real reason is that you can't even fake this on a PC.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: "David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: David T. Johnson lies again
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:01:33 -0400
Marty wrote:
>
> chrisv wrote:
> >
> > Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Psst... I am an OS/2 developer.
> >
> > It looks to me like you're doing the harassing....
>
> Take another look at where this thread started. Then examine threads with the
> name "Wenham" in the title (or any correspondence between David and Chris
> Wenham).
You disagree with my opinions about Wenham's comments...
>
> I'm not denying that I am returning the harassment,
You have not been harassed but you are admitting that you are harassing
me...
> but I "didn't start the
> fire". David feels that he should be able to tell us who the good guys and
> bad guys are and what people should and should not say.
Again, you disagree with my posted opinions about 1) Wenham's pattern of
posts, 2) the ugly Tholen "insanity" thread, and 3) the large number of
off-topic posts. Rather than "step in" and offer constructive comments
with a differing opinion, you have chosen to make continuous personal
attacks and name-calling culminating in a false accusation against me of
'harassment of OS/2 developers.'
> Unfortunately, he
> screwed up and started discussions that fell under his own "should not say"
> category, and that's when I stepped in.
That is your opinion (which I strongly disagree with) and you were and
are free to express it. But you are not free to falsely accuse me of
harassment of 'OS/2 developers' or of anyone else.
>
> He also tends to repeat himself in preference to providing evidence to back up
> anything he says (look for his references to "garbled, illogical", etc.), but
> that's another issue.
Yes, it is.
>
> In short, take another look. Take note of who is providing evidence and who
> is "snipping" the "irrelevant ranting".
Trimming portions of posts in reply is the privelege of the person
making the reply.
------------------------------
From: Roberto Teixeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Date: 13 Oct 2000 15:08:20 -0400
>>>>> "Terry" == Terry Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Terry> Linux took my Windows95 market share off my pc in 1997.
:)
Terry> Bull, Ive had a lady friend using Linux the last 3 weeks,
Terry> before that she had *never* seen Linux. She loves it, uses
Terry> Xchat to IRC and is amazed how much easier it is than mIRC
Terry> under Windows98. In fact she rues the day that she upgraded
Terry> from Win95 to Win98.
True. My parents use Linux at their home. I installed KDE for them and
they are using without a problem. They have never seen Linux before
and barely knew a software called Windows.
--
Roberto Teixeira
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:10:00 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> 1. Proof, in writing (I'm not disagreeing, I would just like to see
> some proof).
>
> 2. If #1 is true, how do I collect my money?
A. By check, duh.
B. We never claimed that EVERY shit-headed MS-cheerleader is on the MS payroll.
>
> claire
>
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:32:54 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >> The black helicopters are coming for you right now.
> >>
> >
> >It's well known that Microsoft pays people to post FUD to this newsgroup.
> >
> >
> >> claire
> >>
> >> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:47:08 +0100, Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >What are the chances that a company as PR aware as Microsoft would allow
> >> >these advocacy forums to exist with astroturfing them? Pretty close to
> >> >zero I would say.
> >> >
> >> >So given that there must be astroturfers here how would we spot them?
> >> >- Not having a real job to go to they make lots of posts.
> >> >- They are technically competent on MS stuff (not wizards, but
> >> >competent).
> >> >- They use the standard bullet-points and marketing buzzwords that look
> >> >a bit out of place in an informal Usenet post, so that they read like
> >> >advertising copy. (like "Advantages to the business", and "Fortune
> >> >500")
> >> >- Talks up Windows 2000 a lot (because it's the latest upgrade and MS
> >> >lives on upgrades)
> >> >- Defends MS when anyone says "anti-trust".
> >> >- Has a slightly salesman feel about them.
> >> >- Doesn't directly attack Linux, but makes sly comments like ("great for
> >> >mom-and-pop operations cutting costs")
> >> >
> >> >Any others?
> >> >
> >> >So who are the astroturfers? Obviously Mike Byrns, but who else?
> >> >---
> >> >Nick
> >> >
> >> >
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: David T. Johnson lies again
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:12:01 -0400
You continue to repeat the same arguments which futilely attempt to
characterize my replys to your personal attacks and name-calling as
'harassment and denigration' of OS/2 developers. You have falsely
accused me of harassment and denigration of OS/2 developers. For that,
you will have to answer. Reposting the same arguments in this forum
only digs a deeper hole for you. And you fail to understand the
significance of your claim to be an OS/2 developer. I am not contesting
that you are an OS/2 developer. Rather, I am pointing to this claim of
yours as increasing the damage that your false accusation of 'harassment
and denigration of OS/2 developers' has done by adding undeserved
credibility to your false accusation. I recommend that you confer with
competent legal counsel on this and refrain from further comments on
your false accusation until such time.
Marty wrote:
>
> "David T. Johnson" wrote:
> >
> > You repeat your arguments to yourself
>
> Prove it, if you think you can.
>
> > and incorrectly seem to feel that that gives them weight.
>
> What you perceive that I "seem to feel" is irrelevant. Nonetheless, your
> statement is quite ironic, given that your posting consisted solely of a
> restatement of your arguments with no supporting evidence for your position.
>
> > You have accused me of harassing and denigrating OS/2 developers.
>
> Incorrect. I have accused you of lying, and rightfully so.
>
> > That is completely false (and ridiculous as well for reasons you are not
> > yet aware of). Glatt accused me of being on a mission to harass and
> > denigrate OS/2 developers. You have supported his false accusation
>
> Incorrect. More evidence of your reading comprehension problems.
>
> > by publicly posting that: 1) you consider yourself to be an OS/2
> > developer
>
> I am not alone in that consideration.
>
> > and 2) My statement denying any harassment and denigration of OS/2
> > developers is false.
>
> I have shown your harassment and denigration of myself by providing a
> definition of each word and applying it to various quotes of yours which were
> addressed to (or should I say "at") me.
>
> ha·rass (hrs, h-rs)
> v. tr. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es.
>
> 1.To irritate or torment persistently.
> 2.To wear out; exhaust.
> 3.To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.
>
> den·i·grate (dn-grt)
> v. tr. den·i·grat·ed, den·i·grat·ing, den·i·grates.
>
> 1.To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of; defame.
> 2.To disparage; belittle: The critics have denigrated our efforts.
>
> DTJ] I have only called you a 'liar' and a 'hypocrite.'
>
> Denigrate: 1
>
> DTJ] perhaps you need to reevaluate your surroundings since you fail to
> impress me as being extraordinarily bright, yourself.
>
> Denigrate: 1,2
> Harass: 1,3
>
> DTJ] H-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e.
>
> Denigrate: 1
>
> DTJ] I doubt that your typical comments can be "dumbed" down any further.
>
> Denigrate: 1,2
> Harass: 1,3
>
> DTJ] As for the substance of your comment, it appears to be as garbled
> and confused as Marty's.
>
> Denigrate: 1,2
> Harass: 1,3
>
> DTJ] I am starting to feel like I am being flamed by a gaggle of
> fifth-graders.
>
> Denigrate: 1,2
>
> DTJ] I was pointing to Marty's mental confusion.
>
> Denigrate: 1,2
> Harass: 1,3
>
> DTJ] The entire thrust of your posts over the last week seems to be
> personal attacks. I am losing respect for you.
>
> Denigrate: 1,2
>
> ...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:15:32 GMT
On 13 Oct 2000 16:26:21 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry
Porter) wrote:
>> Whatever the
>>semantics involved (ie:Linux is the kernel), it is a fact that Linux
>>is trying to compete with Windows for the desktop simply by virtue of
>>the number of Windows program look a likes
>Nonsense, Linux stands on it own, there is real innovation here in the Linux
>world.
Of course Linux stands on it's own, and there is certainly a
contingent of Linux supporters that want to keep it that way and to
not try and compete with home use desktop Windows. Personally, I feel
this is the way to go as Linux's strengths are geared more toward the
technical end of the business like servers and such.
>> as well as kde and Gnome.
>>It is also for sale in CompUSA for anywhere from $29 to about $100
>>depending on distro.
>>
>>You can pull all the word twisting you want out of the hat
>Look whos talking ;-)
>
>> but Linux
>>is not taking any market share away from the Windows desktop.
>Linux took my Windows95 market share off my pc in 1997.
So we have been told, about a 1000 times already.
>> Joe and
>>Jane that is. Programmers? Students? maybe, home users? Nope.
>Bull, Ive had a lady friend using Linux the last 3 weeks, before that she had
>*never* seen Linux. She loves it, uses Xchat to IRC and is amazed how much
>easier it is than mIRC under Windows98. In fact she rues the day that she
>upgraded from Win95 to Win98.
If she did a migrate instead of a fresh install, she should. That was
a nightmare.
If she's happy, that's great.
Does she run DVD's?
>>
>>And if it doesn't get it's ass in gear it will remain a niche' system.
>More bs from the Wintroll master "Steve". Still pretending to be a girl I see
>shame, shame, shame.
I don't see Linux going anywhere on the desktop, do you?
My user group is full of people who have tried Linux and dumped it
just as quickly because it requires more effort to do less than what
they can do under Windows.
claire
>>
>>claire
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:54:26 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias
>>Warkus) wrote:
>>
>>>It was the Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:28:40 GMT...
>>>...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> The underlying OS is simply a means to the end result and Linux is a
>>>> fine operating system. In my opinion it should stay focused on the
>>>> advanced market, where it is making major gains in usage, and stop
>>>> trying to compete with desktop Windows.
>>>
>>>Linux cannot stay focused on anything, and Linux cannot stop trying to
>>>compete with something, because Linux is not a product.
>>>
>>>mawa
>>
>
>
>--
>Kind Regards
>Terry
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:17:05 GMT
You were the one who said "people" are paid by MS to post here.
Now prove your statement.
If you can prove it, please tell me how to collect my money.
claire
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:10:00 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> 1. Proof, in writing (I'm not disagreeing, I would just like to see
>> some proof).
>>
>> 2. If #1 is true, how do I collect my money?
>
>A. By check, duh.
>B. We never claimed that EVERY shit-headed MS-cheerleader is on the MS payroll.
>
>>
>> claire
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:32:54 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The black helicopters are coming for you right now.
>> >>
>> >
>> >It's well known that Microsoft pays people to post FUD to this newsgroup.
>> >
>> >
>> >> claire
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:47:08 +0100, Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >What are the chances that a company as PR aware as Microsoft would allow
>> >> >these advocacy forums to exist with astroturfing them? Pretty close to
>> >> >zero I would say.
>> >> >
>> >> >So given that there must be astroturfers here how would we spot them?
>> >> >- Not having a real job to go to they make lots of posts.
>> >> >- They are technically competent on MS stuff (not wizards, but
>> >> >competent).
>> >> >- They use the standard bullet-points and marketing buzzwords that look
>> >> >a bit out of place in an informal Usenet post, so that they read like
>> >> >advertising copy. (like "Advantages to the business", and "Fortune
>> >> >500")
>> >> >- Talks up Windows 2000 a lot (because it's the latest upgrade and MS
>> >> >lives on upgrades)
>> >> >- Defends MS when anyone says "anti-trust".
>> >> >- Has a slightly salesman feel about them.
>> >> >- Doesn't directly attack Linux, but makes sly comments like ("great for
>> >> >mom-and-pop operations cutting costs")
>> >> >
>> >> >Any others?
>> >> >
>> >> >So who are the astroturfers? Obviously Mike Byrns, but who else?
>> >> >---
>> >> >Nick
>> >> >
>> >> >
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