Linux-Advocacy Digest #672, Volume #29 Sun, 15 Oct 00 14:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop (Perry Pip)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (Perry Pip)
Re: Claire Lynn (sfcybear)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (sfcybear)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Convince me to run Linux? (Terry Porter)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("D'Arcy Smith")
Re: Linus interview (elmig)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Convince me to run Linux?
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Astroturfing
Re: Claire Lynn (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Astroturfing ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("James A. Robertson")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Les Mikesell")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:56:19 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Classic example of the Linvocate not responding to what was written
>but inserting what proves HIS point.
Or, alternatively, a classic example of how Linux advocates expect the
first order of business in learning to use a computer is to learn how to
reason.
>They must have some kind of a secret manual that teaches them how to
>do these things.
Actually, the brain is generally a self-booting mechanism. Some people,
unfortunately, don't seem to be able to get past the critical level of
bootstrapping to get to the point where they can think for themselves.
Thus the delusion that there is some 'secret manual' that teaches them
how to reason.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:45:54 GMT
On Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:56:33 -0500,
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Perry Pip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:59:19 -0500,
>> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >"Perry Pip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >> I bought Solaris 7 both x86 and sparc versions about a year or so ago
>> >> for $10 plus shipping. Looks like now they are only selling Solaris 8
>> >> for $75. But you can install it on as many machines as you
>> >> like. That's certainly cheaper than W2K.
>> >
>> >Not a commercial license.
>> >
>>
>> From the main page: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/
>>
>> "For only the cost of media ($75 US) plus shipping, you can use the
>software
>> on an unlimited number of computers with a capacity of 8 or fewer CPUs."
>>
>> From FAQ at http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/faq.html
>>
>> "You can use the Solaris 8 runtime environment at home or at work, for
>> business or personal computing."
>
>I see you conveniently forgot that we're talking about Solaris 7 and below.
That's a crock of lame ass bullshit. Here is what you posted:
http://x65.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=677223329
You didn't specify which version. Furthermore, Sun isn't even selling
Solaris 7 any more. What an older version used to cost is
irrelevent. Solaris 8 is the current version and a fully capable
version for up to eight processors is $75 with no limit on the # of
machines you install it on.
>And since when did the cost of media = $75?
>
For about 10 CD's and printed documention and shipping.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:47:36 GMT
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:25:04 -0500,
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:00101318293500.28373@pc03...
>> Allow me to give you the idiot-proof version of how to make a masquerading
>> firewall between a LAN and the internet through a dialup link using Linux.
>
>...
>
>> Step 2: Configure a masquerading firewall.
>>
>> The command for this is as follows
>>
>> ipchains -A forward -s 10.0.0.0/255.255.255.0 -j MASQ
>>
>> Replace 10.4.0.0 with your real network and netmask. Simpler syntax:
>>
>> ipchains -A forward -s 10.0.0.0/24 -j MASQ
>
>You know, not once does it mention in the ipchains how-to this command line.
Really??
http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/IPCHAINS-HOWTO-3.html#ss3.1
And it's also at:
http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO-3.html#ss3.3
>It took many hours of frustration and fiddling the first time I set up a
>masq box.
And it took many other people less than an hour. Since the
documentation is the same for everybody, we can only conclude the
problem is with you.
>The documentation on this just plain sucks
How would you know? It's obvious your not intelligent enough to
read it because it's right their in black and white.
>and is years out of
>date.
IPCHAINS-HOWTO - v1.0.8, Tue Jul 4 2000
IP Masquerade HOWTO - v1.90, July 03, 2000
You're nothing but a blatent lying asshole as well.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Claire Lynn
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:49:03 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:01:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The
> Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
>
> >This is a generalization.
>
> If we we in the general population it would be. We are in COLA where
> things are much different
YEah, we have to put up with uninformed people like you.
>
> >>
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:48:06 GMT
In article <XzfG5.1177$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > I said ipchains-howto. The IP-Masquerade-HOWTO doesn't seem to
exist on
> any
> > > distribution I have (though I haven't checked my Mandrake 7.1 CD
yet).
> It
> > > certainly doesn't exist on the RedHat 6.1 CD
> >
> > By the way, I just checked. IP-Masquerade-HOWTO is available on
Redhat
> 6.1:
> >
> > /usr/doc/HOWTO/other-formats/html/mini/IP-Masquerade.html
> >
> > /usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/IP-Masquerade
> >
> > You guys just don't bother checking even the most basic things. If
you
> are
> > going to complain about Linux documentation, then at least do a
little
> research
> > first.
>
> Thanks for the information. I think it's a bit unintuitive to have it
in
> some directory called mini, which I would (and did) assume was for
something
> called a mini which I wasn't using. I don't claim to be a Linux
expert. I
> only learn enough to do what I need it to do. This is certainly no
points
> for ease of use. If I'm looking for a howto it should be in the howto
> directory, not buried in several subdirectories.
My, with your comments about Linux in the past, one would expect that
you were and expert. I guess you were just joshing us. Besides, youve
been here long enough to know that help is availble on the news groups.
You don't need to be a linux expert to know that.
>
> >
> > Gary
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:02:54 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Arthur Frain in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>You're basically comparing a functioning, reliable OS
>(Linux) to a piece of crap (Win98SE). It seems largely
>irrelevant how easy it is to configure something that
>isn't capable of functioning in the first place.
Well said. (And well supported, too.)
[...]
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Convince me to run Linux?
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 15 Oct 2000 17:04:01 GMT
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:50:39 GMT, Linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I really do want to run Linux but I can't find any viable reason to
>switch from Windows ME to Linux?
Absense of proof does NOT equal Proof of absense!
>
>My Dell comes with Windows ME installed as well as internet access and
>all of the programs, including Quicken, encyclopedias and children's
>scholastic program's all pre installed.
So what, you paid $$$$, one would hope youd get something for your money ?
How about a decent newsreader with scorefile ?
Electronics programs, schematic and PCB cad programs ?
Flowcharts
Html servers
Irc servers
Ftp servers
Programming, editors, compilers, profilers, debugers
Irc clients
No ? how sad, Linux comes with these and *thousands* more "FREE SOFTWARE"
programs.
>
>
>Why should I switch to Linux?
See above.
>
>I asked Dell about Linux when I placed my order, about 2 weeks ago,
>and they laughed saying that 99 percent of the Linux pre-loads they
>shipped come back with the customers asking for the Windows pre-load
>instead.
Bull shit.
>
>According to them, it is just a matter of them exchanging the hard
>disk?
therefore ... ?
>
>I have not committed to my order yet, but I am having second thoughts?
So are you, or are you not, having second thoughts ???
>
>What viable reasons are there for going with Linux?
See above.
>
>Izzy
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 13 hours 22 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "D'Arcy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:15:35 GMT
"Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> You really don't have any idea of just how well documented it is. Please
goto
> (sorry :-) http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp and start looking
up
> the functions I've mentioned. They are absolutely meticulously
documented.
> Many times better than their Qt, GTK or *gasp* raw X counterparts.
Please point me to the part that gives me enough documentation
to re-implement theiir WSA calls for networking.
Having documentation on the general "how does this function"
work is not the right information to be able to re-implement it.
..darcy
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (elmig)
Subject: Re: Linus interview
Date: 15 Oct 2000 17:16:13 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>You should go and learn English first.
>
>mawa
That's a good idea. it never ocurred to me...
A good keyboard may help too.
elmig
http://www.alunos.ipb.pt/~ee3931
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:33:07 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>There was never a requirement to sign a per processor license agreement. Get
>your facts straight. [...]
Perhaps you misread the facts presented, which was that there was a
requirement to agree to ppl, or MS would make Win/DOS too expensive for
the OEM to remain competitive for those large number of customers that
currently use Windows (not realizing how crappy a system it is, and
believing MS's hype-machine/marketing). Get your business reality
straight, Mr. Anonymous Troll. Few people here are stupid enough not to
understand the facts concerning per processor licensing, besides
yourself and a limited number of other Microsoft defenders. The current
theory is that you are all so deep into defending MS's blatantly
criminal activity that you are forced to ignore the still-growing mounds
of evidence in order to maintain the delusion that you are right through
dint of your superior intellectual consideration. It would be far too
damaging to your self-image to recognize how wrong you are, so you keep
digging yourself deeper and deeper into stupidity in order to try to
maintain your ego. It would be sad if it weren't so outrageously
annoying.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:34:35 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Next time you buy a new car bring your own carburetor in and plop it on the
>counter, and say "Put this in it will you" to the salesman.
Umm, carburetors in cars aren't third party components, as OSes on PCs
are. You misunderstood the analogy. Not that any car dealer is going
to have any trouble with your request; they certainly don't have any
'per car licensing' agreements on carburetors.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:36:02 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
[...]
>> >Max, listen to me closely. I won't say this again.
>>
>> I wish I could believe that.
>
>The difference is that almost everyone thinks the same about you :-)
You obviously are defining 'almost everyone' as other WinTrolls.
>> >Even Word 2.0 and Excel
>> >4 still run perfectly fine in Windows ME and Windows 2000. If these
>> >programs depended on those hidden API's, they too would break when those
>> >API's changed.
>>
>> Only if you presume a simplistic mechanism, which you are happy to do,
>> in your ignorance of the code, because it defends your chosen position,
>> and which I refuse to do, being ignorant of the code, because it is
>> counter to evidence.
>
>That was convincing? Or readable? Your english teacher should have flogged
>you followed by your logic teacher :-) Can you make a point?
Can you parse the language? It was a run-on sentence, thanks for
pointing it out; there was nothing illogical about it.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:39:04 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"Shane Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>It's very clear that Windows is extremely intimate with DOS, and it does so
>in ways that are more than the documented int 21h interface. Whatever MS's
>other reasons or wants, they do have a legitimate reason to test. They
>can't guarantee safe operation on non MS-DOS. They're the ones that will
>get the support call when Windows 3.1 fails because of a problem with their
>competitors DOS.
Excuse me, but Windows 3.1 does not compete with DOS. That is
important, whether you want to recognize it or not.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Convince me to run Linux?
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:41:25 GMT
"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:50:39 GMT, Linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about a decent newsreader with scorefile ?
> Electronics programs, schematic and PCB cad programs ?
> Flowcharts
> Html servers
> Irc servers
> Ftp servers
> Programming, editors, compilers, profilers, debugers
> Irc clients
>
> No ? how sad, Linux comes with these and *thousands* more "FREE SOFTWARE"
> programs.
yeah?...really good...eeehh now, the problem is that no "end-user" wants any
of these, unless youre a geek of course....
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:40:28 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Weevil in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> when it gets the WM_CREATE message or to PostQuitMessage when it gets a
>> WM_DESTROY. It's all very simple and logical.
>
>My god! It's so simple! Over 300 Wine developers in more than a dozen
>countries...how silly are THOSE guys going to feel when they see this?
>
>I guess that's it, then. As soon as somebody alerts the Wine guys as to
>your above paragraph, they can call it Wine 1.0, stamp DONE on it, and move
>on to Win2k or something.
>
>Boy, and all this time they thought there was so much more to it than that.
LOL!
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:51:51 GMT
"Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > , the Windows 2000 Server Family delivers three increasingly powerful
> > > products that set a new standard for reliability and scalability. The
> > > Windows 2000 Server Family also demonstrates how well an operating
system
> > > can be integrated with a standards-based directory, Web, application,
> > > network, file and print services, and end-to-end management. This
> > > combination of reliability and functionality provides the best
foundation
> > > for integrating your business with the Internet.
> > >
> >
> > yeah! you are absolutely right......they do!....over Windows 95/98 that
> > is.... ;)
>
> And over reefer smoking linux skatepunks like you :-)
skatepunks?........HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!.....AAAaaaaa......good one!......and
you are?......57?
>
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Claire Lynn
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:54:35 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said The Ghost In The Machine in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>>This group is the biggest joke on the entire net. It gets mentioned in
>>the trade rags all the time as well as in user groups, at least where
>>I live. We think it is hysterical.
>
>Who's this "we", paleface?
Why, Clair, Steve, and the other 16 personalities this poster has
adopted, obviously. :-D
[...]
>>We have a guy who can't use a spell checker.
>
>I iz reel gud et sepling. (Come back Tim Palmer, we miss you!
>Um.... On second thought...)
LOLROTFLMAO
>>Another one who just makes up "facts" as he goes along.
>
>Well, I discount such observations as "Linux is the best OS
>that ever was" (highly subjective), or "Windows NT is the
>absolute lamest" (ditto) or "Windows NT crashes a lot" (ditto)
>or such like.
Sorry, these aren't facts being made up as we go along; they can be well
supported through both logic and evidence. Linux is the best OS that
ever was, because it is the only GPL PC OS. Windows NT is the crappiest
(next to Win/DOS) because it is made by a monopoly, which prevents it
from being developed in a way which would make it competitive as an OS.
>To a true scientist (if such a concept makes any sense at all),
>raw, repeatable data is the gist of the fact or theory.
>It's not enough to say Windows crashed; one has to recreate
>the state of the entire system at will, or at least enough of it
>to reproduce the crash.
Only if you could find a true scientist who wasn't familiar with
reality. Empirical science would support the fact that the inability to
recreate the state of the entire system at will and reproduce the crash
is, indeed, precisely what ensures that NT will crash a lot. As with
Win/DOS before it, it is the apparently non-deterministic behavior of
the software which makes it crap. "It crashes a lot" is not empirically
equivalent to 'it crashes in a known circumstance'. To determine that
it crashes a lot, empirically, would be a matter of statistics, not
experiments. The fact is that one cannot pre-determine in what ways it
will crash next, but one can statistically verify that it will, indeed,
crash in some way under an arbitrary set of circumstances.
Just prattling on, pay me no never-mind.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:53:08 GMT
"Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Joseph T. Adams" wrote:
>
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy JS/PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > : What's wrong with Windows 2000? Surely you must acknowledge that
Microsoft
> > : has the freedom to innovate, building on the strengths of Windows NT
Server
> > : 4.0, the Windows 2000 Server Family delivers three increasingly
powerful
> > : products that set a new standard for reliability and scalability. The
> > : Windows 2000 Server Family also demonstrates how well an operating
system
> > : can be integrated with a standards-based directory, Web, application,
> > : network, file and print services, and end-to-end management. This
> > : combination of reliability and functionality provides the best
foundation
> > : for integrating your business with the Internet.
> >
> > Classic! :)
>
> It's is a classic, Joe. Glad to see you're onboard. It's not hard to
write that
> way when 1) you're literate and 2) it's all true! :-)
If it were true that win2k integrated with standards you would not
have any problems using it as a client to standard LDAP and
kerberos servers and you would lose no functionality compared
to having to run an active directory server. I don't think that
is true at all. In fact I think it is like most other Microsoft products
that claim standards compliance yet really refuse to interoperate
with other vendors' products.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "James A. Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:57:44 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >Next time you buy a new car bring your own carburetor in and plop it on the
> >counter, and say "Put this in it will you" to the salesman.
>
> Umm, carburetors in cars aren't third party components, as OSes on PCs
> are. You misunderstood the analogy. Not that any car dealer is going
> to have any trouble with your request; they certainly don't have any
> 'per car licensing' agreements on carburetors.
They aren't? Just how useful is the PC without the OS? Are you of the
belief that the acerage consumer is capable of loading and configuring
an OS all by themselves? if so, you haven't actually seen a neophyte
attempt this.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> ======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
>
> Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
>
> http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
>
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--
James A. Robertson
Technical Product Manager (Smalltalk), Cincom
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:03:43 GMT
"JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> There was never a requirement to sign a per processor license agreement.
Get
> your facts straight. ONLY at the urging of OEM customers did MS offer a
per
> processor license agreement.
I guess I missed that in the vendor court depositions. Can you point me to
the document(s) that show which vendor(s) claimed to have wanted
this arrangement? And can you disclose the price difference between
the different agreements to support your claim that it did not constitute
a requirement?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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