Linux-Advocacy Digest #853, Volume #29 Wed, 25 Oct 00 07:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Point of Sale Linux (Terry Porter)
Re: Claire! post something! (Gardiner Family)
Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system. (2:1)
Re: Windows 2000 challenges GNOME/KDE ("David Brown")
Re: Windows 2000 challenges GNOME/KDE (Milton)
Re: Microsoft Speaks German! (2:1)
Re: $1,000 per copy for Windows. (2:1)
Re: What I don't like about RedHat Linux. (2:1)
Re: $1,000 per copy for Windows. ("David Brown")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Donal K. Fellows)
Re: Debian vs RedHat/Mandrake (2:1)
Re: Linux IS an operating system, Windows 9x and ME are not, here is why.
(Goldhammer)
Re: Linux Beats NT! ("John Hughes")
Re: Astroturfing ("Weevil")
Re: ReiserFS (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Ms employees begging for food (Jan Vorbrueggen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Point of Sale Linux
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 25 Oct 2000 08:13:04 GMT
On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:17:13 +0100, Nigel Feltham
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Microsoft is point of sale yet Linux isn't.
Not quite true, look in Sunsite, a chap here in Australia, made a Pizza POS
software package based on Linux about 2 years ago.
>
>
>And I thought people meant something different when they say windows is a
>P.O.S. Product.
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 1 week 3 days 3 hours 22 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Claire! post something!
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:21:16 +1300
Here's a stab in the dark, she has been fired for misusing company
internet access, ie, posting comments on new group servers during
company time. As a result she can no longer afford to pay the ISP,
thus, she is now disconnected from the NET, thank god!
matt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <8sl0qg$keus9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Ingemar Lundin wrote in message ...
> > >this ng is beginning to sink to a new low
> > >(hard to break record indeed)
> > >
> >
> > Perhaps s/he is busy re-installing windows after another crash ;-)
> >
>
> Wednesday. The personalities are in court ordered counseling.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system.
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:23:29 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:46:17 GMT, "Marc Bonanova" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > As a home desktop environment, Windows 2000 is even worse than
> >Linux compared to Windows 98, and I can prove it to you whenever
> >you want.
>
> One word:
>
> "Quicken"
>
> claire
So? Not everyone likes quicken.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 challenges GNOME/KDE
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:29:16 +0200
Colin R. Day wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> > > applications that came with my linux distribution. BTW what comes
with
>> Linux
>> > > that Windows does not have on the CD?
>> >
>> > TeX, emacs, gcc, xbill, perl, python,
>
>>
>> And they are used for what?
>
>TeX (and LATeX) typesetting. Granted, I'm a math teacher and not everyone
>wants to print math stuff.
I use LaTeX all the time for technical documentation - even for simple
letters or faxes it produces much better output than any word processor, and
for longer or structured documents it is vastly superior. On linux, LyX (or
KLyX) makes it much easier to use - and LyX is *not* ported to Win32 (a
pity - I use NT at work).
>
>Emacs. Text editor of the gods. Includes modes for TeX/LATeX, C, C++
>
>gcc. Handy if one needs a C/C++ compiler
And the gcc suite also includes Pascal, fortran, assembly, a debugger, and a
whole range of other tools to suit your fancy.
>
>xbill. A popular game among Linux sysadmins. The object of the game, to
>stop bill from converting your network to toasters.
Linux CD's generally also include a range of other games (more than
solitaire, minesweeper and hearts).
>
>Perl and Python are scripting languages.
>
What about all the other stuff that Windows users normally buy at vast
expense (if they need them)? Like mail servers, database servers, web
servers, firewalls, routers, SMP support (for lots of cpus, at no extra
cost), clustering support (on some distributions), and unlimited client
access? Or for desktop use, word processors (of varying quality),
spreadsheets (like gnumeric), maths and statistics programs, the GIMP
(roughly equivilent to PhotoShop on Windows)?
------------------------------
From: Milton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 challenges GNOME/KDE
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:32:30 -0400
On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:28:29 -0500, "Bobby D. Bryant"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What do Windows home users do at home, anyway?
You mean when they're not watching a pretty blue screen?
Prolly, formating and re-installing.
Of course they have plenty of time to do important things, like
defragging and downloading the latest virus definition files and the
latest beta drivers.
--
«««««««««««««««««««««««»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Milton B. Hewitt
CAUCE Member - http://www.cauce.org
Proud supporter of the Microsoft Boycott Campaign
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/
«««««««««««««««««««««««»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft Speaks German!
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:28:12 +0100
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> JS/PL wrote:
>
> > "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >I found it interesting that they actually spent money
> > > > >on this one. Who was their Ad man?
> > > >
> > > > It was a stupid move. It only serves to show that Linux is
> > > > legit and M$ is worried about it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, let's put it this way!
> > > It was a totally childish move by Microsoft to
> > > run a negative campaign ad in Europe.
> >
> > Yea right. I have have grown to accept that every single article about Linux
> > will likely contain at least one slam against Microsoft. The whole Linux
> > campaign is built upon negativity towards Microsoft.
> >
> > To prove my point I'll simply type a URL - Ohh... how bout.... linux.org
> >
> > Page one at http://www.linux.org , the second text link states "Whats MS
> > worried about?"
> > But as I jump down to the "People of Linux" section and click the link to an
> > interview with Shawn Gorgon, I notice, there it is AS PREDICTED, a slam
> > against MS towards the bottom of the page. What do you know... :-(
> >
> > Who's being childish??
>
> I went to this link and it took me here.
>
> http://www.it.fairfax.com.au/breaking/20001023/A2507-2000Oct23.html
>
> Charlie
ROFL!!!
That is one of the funniest things I've seen in a while. I, personally
like the frog.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: $1,000 per copy for Windows.
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:30:32 +0100
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Goldhammer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:0kqJ5.56887$N%>
> >What are you talking about?
> > >Windows 2000 is the next version of
> > >Windows NT 4.
> >
> >
> > Really? Is that how we are to imagine
> > it? Then it shouldn't be a problem
> > replacing some servers on an NT
> > network with Win2K. I should expect
> > seamless integration, right?
> >
> > Let me know how it turns out.
>
> Many companies have done just that. Hell, Microsoft runs it's entire
> microsoft.com domain on Windows 2000.
No shit?
Have to say, I'm really suprised.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What I don't like about RedHat Linux.
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:32:09 +0100
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> 2:1 wrote:
>
> > > Oh, I still don't think so. You could have just upgraded the entire thing
> > > and been happy anyway.
> >
> > I didn't want to upgrade the entire thing because I wanted to keep all
> > my settings ans scripts working -- not that my plan worked. Also, I had
> > the CD as an ISO image on my HDD, and I'm flat out of CDRs st the
> > moment.
> >
> > Also, I only wanted to upgrade what I wanted.
> >
>
> We could go on like this forever!
>
> And I have to ask what the point is?
>
> Run Slackware and get happy.
I DON'T WANT TO REINSTALL MY OS! Geddit? That's one reason i switched.
-Ed
> Okay.
>
> Charlie
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: $1,000 per copy for Windows.
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:32:49 +0200
Erik Funkenbusch wrote in message <1brJ5.3583$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>"Goldhammer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:0kqJ5.56887$N%>
>>What are you talking about?
>> >Windows 2000 is the next version of
>> >Windows NT 4.
>>
>>
>> Really? Is that how we are to imagine
>> it? Then it shouldn't be a problem
>> replacing some servers on an NT
>> network with Win2K. I should expect
>> seamless integration, right?
>>
>> Let me know how it turns out.
>
>Many companies have done just that. Hell, Microsoft runs it's entire
>microsoft.com domain on Windows 2000.
>
Read the question - it shouldn't be a problem replacing *SOME* servers on an
NT network with Win2K. W2K works fine (by all accounts - I have not tried
it) with W2K, but how well do W2K servers co-operate with NT4 servers, or
Unix servers, and with different clients (w2k, Win9x, NT4, unix)?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donal K. Fellows)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: 25 Oct 2000 08:40:40 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It gets worse. What if one had a 14 inch monitor, versus a 21 inch?
> Same pixels, different size....
Plus, some monitors are astonishingly badly set up, with the area
being used for viewing being substantially at odds with the nominal
viewable area of the monitor. :^(
> But you're right, Windows is far better at this type of thing than
> X is; at least in Windows, one can specify a 1 inch circle and
> get a 1 inch circle, regardless of display device, because of the
> transform applied by the display context.
Alas, Windows manages to get this wrong just about as often as X does
(and yes, X does provide a mechanism for obtaining the dpi of the
display device.) Maybe 2K with a modern monitor gets it right, but I
wouldn't be at all surprised if this is not the case. (The only
reason proper UNIX workstations should have a chance to get this at
all right is because of the high level of control the vendors have
over the hardware.)
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- US citizens? Remember, I rule the world in this scenario. They aren't
citizens of the US, unless that stands for United Stevenland.
-- Steven Odhner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian vs RedHat/Mandrake
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:55:22 +0100
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> > on Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:34:51 GMT
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >Read his statement.
> > >
> > >He said applications run faster, and offered 0 proof.
> >
> > It would be interesting to see if Win2k can run both Linux
> > and FreeBSD binaries faster than Linux and FreeBSD, respectively... :-)
> >
> > [rest snipped]
> >
> > --
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
>
> Ha ha, shit!
> Give Bill Gates another 10 years and Windows will probably
> be another NIX if he had it his way!
>
> Charlie
Windows is slowly and painfully becoming UNIX. Look at it, it now has a
remote GUI, a POSIX subsystem, symbolic links, etc. Besides, wasn't NT3
a better UNIX than UNIX?
Meanwhilst I'll just stick to using UNIX or UNIX workalikes.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux IS an operating system, Windows 9x and ME are not, here is why.
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:51:06 GMT
In article <8t5hf0$b22$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <8t5alr$5mb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [snip]
> > Honestly speaking, if you asked me today to speculate on
> > the true origins of NT, I would say that it is based on
> > a hack of Windows For Workgroups, not VMS.
>
> I, too, am a former VAX/VMS system manager and programmer, and a
> long-time user of WinNT. The only commonality I can find between the
> two is that Dave Cutler was tangentially involved in the development
> of both. Claiming that WinNT is an evolutionary product of VMS has
> absolutely no basis in fact.
VMS is an extremely hardware-specific system. The VMS of Cutler's
time (<5) especially so. VMS is a hardware-specific solution. On
pretty much every major feature point, NT takes an opposite direction.
NT's original "vision" was as a multi-platform solution. This is
the opposite of VMS. Also, in regard to scalability, which is one
of VMS's claims to fame, again we see NT taking the exact opposite
route.
The "ideological" differences are so astoundingly contradictory
to each other, it's almost like Cutler or whoever was in control
wanted to create a kind of anti-VMS. As for any claim that
NT contains VMS <5 OS internals code, I find that hard to believe.
> If there are any similarities between
> the two, it is because operating systems by necessity share common
> features.
Speaking of Cutler. From time to time, MS advocates
take some potshots against some of the personalities
involved in linux kernel development or the FSF
movement. Cutler siglehandedly tips the scale in
the other direction.
> Dave wrote the forward to a book I have called "Inside Windows NT".
> Although he does briefly mention VMS he says that NT was developed
> completely devoid of the "baggage" of previous operating systems.
>
> This is one of those myths that is going to be hard to kill.
This should amuse you:
http://www.medfac.leidenuniv.nl/mi/news/vms2nt.htm
"Due to the decision of the University that VMS no longer will be
supported, the faculties are forced to change to another operating
system. The support group of Medical Informatics decided to try NT,
because it is told to be the successor of VMS."
I wonder what idiot told them this.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "John Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Beats NT!
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:05:12 +0100
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<snip>
>
> I have to agree.
>
> Microsoft Web servers account for less than 10% of the worlds web servers.
> Apache is 6 times their size in useage.
>
> We are also not accounting for EASE of HACKNESS here.
>
>
Netcraft showed that it was around 36%.
Where do you get < 10% from?
------------------------------
From: "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 05:12:59 -0500
Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8t564h$btk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:rKnJ5.7745$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:39f4c32c$0$1089$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > What's even MORE amazing is that you know there are hundreds of
millions
> > of
> > > users of MS products who are obviously not paid to use those products,
> > > continue to use those products, continue to upgrade and use those
> products
> > > and you actually are stupid enough to imagine that MS would need to
pay
> > > anyone in some lightly trafficed advocacy newsgroup? The mind boggles
at
> > > what this implies of the rest of your capacity for stupidity might
be...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Hey Drestin. You never answered my question about how to get
WinAnything
> to
> > recognize and use my entire hard drive. I have an 8 gig drive, dual
boot
> > with Win98 and Linux, but Windows doesn't seem to be able to recognize
the
> 5
> > gigs Linux uses. As you know, Linux seamlessly recognizes and uses any
> part
> > of the drive I wish to access, but I can't get Windows to do anything
but
> > think it's on a 3 gig drive.
> >
> > Why is that? You never answered, you know.
>
> More details needed. Are you bitching because you can't mount the ext2
> partitions in Windows or because windows itself only sees the drive as 3GB
?
Neither. I'm exposing the hypocrisy of Drestin and the other Winvocates who
pretend to be outraged that Linux sometimes does not recognize and use all
their RAM unless they add a line to a startup file. I am merely pointing
out that Windows has the same problem with dual boot hard drives, except
that there IS no fix for Windows.
Clearly, Windows' problem is far more serious since you can't fix it, but
the Winvocates continue to try to ignore this point, thus exposing their own
hypocrisy.
For the record, yes, I have an ext2 filesystem on my 5 gig Linux partition.
Windows gets 3 gigs, and that's all it is able to recognize or use. Linux,
as everyone in here knows, sees and uses the whole drive.
jwb
> What's it look like in fdisk ?
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Subject: Re: ReiserFS
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:39:19 GMT
On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:23:03 +1300, Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|the new file system is ext3 that will allow users of ext2 to migrate to ext3
|without any problems (ie like the fat16 to fat32 converter). In a nutshell,
|ext3 is ext2 with journalling and logging facilities, ext3 retains all the
|filesystem thingys that are in ext2.
|
|matt
|
|Charlie Ebert wrote:
|
|> Marc Bonanova wrote:
|>
|> > Why the Hell ...
|> >
|> > ... a) does the kernel include Reiser nowadays ?
|>
|> Linus says as of 2.4.1 it will.
|>
|> >
|> >
|> > ... b) doesn't each distro include the possibility of installing
|> > or upgrading over a Reiser filesystem ?
|>
|> It's already in Mandrake and Suse. Don't know about anybody else.
|> Dont' know why Debian didn't include it.
|>
|> There is a new EXT2 file system which was supposed to surpass
|> Reiser also comming out.
There is also another filesystem based on ext2. It's called "Tux"
and is based on something called a phase-tree. Don't ask me how it
works, but it's supposed to pass from one consistent state to
another with a single write.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: Jan Vorbrueggen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: 25 Oct 2000 12:38:22 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Caveman) writes:
> As for your arguments so-and-so UNIX vs. BSD or whatever, how many
> cowboy Linux versions are out there? It is impossible to keep
> individuals from "upgrading" their own systems in a corporate environment
> such that the whole thing becomes utterly unsupportable. It's hard
> enough to keep people from deciding to install W2K to replace their
> NT4.0 installation and then complain that it doesn't interoperate.
I would have thought that such behaviour was grounds for immediate dismissal.
> I once wrote a SLIP driver for Solaris 2.4 that had fully independent
> mutex locks on all four incoming and outgoing data paths. Solaris is
> so finely grained in that way that some people have complained that it's
> TOO finely grained, though you don't have to abuse it to the point that
> you waste cycles in too much spin, but you can have, in my opinion, more
> kernel I/O threads running at once in parallel on a Solaris 8 box than
> anything short of S/390 or ACP/TPF.
Or VMS.
Jan
------------------------------
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