Linux-Advocacy Digest #892, Volume #29           Sat, 28 Oct 00 14:13:05 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Astroturfing (Jason Bowen)
  Re: Astroturfing (Jason Bowen)
  Re: Astroturfing (Jason Bowen)
  Re: Linux Beats NT! (.)
  Re: MS Hacked? (The Ghost In The Machine)
  Re: I'm sick and tired of you (was: Linux) (Matthias Warkus)
  Re: Linux (Matthias Warkus)
  Re: Another poor dork in deep shit, Claire! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Why don't I use Linux? (Pete Goodwin)
  Re: Hullo, Claire, James? Here's another dork for you ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Slackware (Bloody Viking)
  Re: Astroturfing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Astroturfing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Ms employees begging for food (T. Max Devlin)
  Re: Linux Beats NT! (2:1)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: 28 Oct 2000 16:25:16 GMT

In article <39fa022f$2$yrgbherq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen) said:
>
>>In article <39f944fd$3$yrgbherq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>In <8tb2n8$prf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 10/27/00 
>>>   at 05:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen) said:
>>>
>>>>Typical invective from somebody that lacks an argument.  Good day Ed! :-)
>>>
>>>That is because you're an asshole who refuses to understand or consider any
>>>argument you don't want to hear.   Your parents really should not breed any
>>>more like you.
>
>>Nice pontification.  Tell me, why are you such a bitter old man?
>
>Constant exposure to tired little assholes like you being let lose on the
>world!

Because I can pass electrical engineering and comp sci. courses and apply
the knowledge of them while you flail about?  You didn't know what the
fuck was going on and won't admit it.

> 
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>



------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: 28 Oct 2000 16:27:33 GMT

In article <39fac6cd$3$yrgbherq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 10/27/00 
>   at 02:31 PM, chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>>That is because you're an asshole who refuses to understand or consider any
>>>argument you don't want to hear.   Your parents really should not breed any
>>>more like you.
>
>>Why, there's a lot of factual information.
>
>>Sore loser.  You lose the arguement, so you lash out with insults.
>
>Ah, another asshole arrives. Are you a friend of Jason or just another idiot
>troll? 
>
>There is no factual that the cache is the factor that so overwhelmingly
>controls performance and *user productivity*  that nothing else matters.  This
>is jasons claim. And it is what he ignores, in order to focus on a tiny point
>so he can be the big guy in more then his dreams.

We were talking about hardware and accesses to memory.  Ed was dumb enough
to try to claim that OS/2 somehow made these accesses faster.  If he could
admit his error

>
>His claim, is like saying tire tread design is the factor that decides how
>fast the operator can actually drive a car in the real world -- and all other
>factors, even when you put them all together, cannot out weigh the effect of
>tread design.
> 

We weren't talking about the overall system, this is something you've
tried to add to save face and it isn't working you dishonest asshole.

>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>



------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: 28 Oct 2000 16:24:04 GMT

Since you feel that you were right Ed, describe the cpu cache on any x86
processor and specifically the caching of the 430VX chipset.  The topic at
hand was the 430VX and it's inability to cache more than 64Mb of ram.
This means that everytime an address above 64Mb was used the cpu had to
fetch it from memory as opposed to first hitting the cache, this is a huge
performance hit.  This was the topic and no software will make hardware
run faster.  Bob was stupid enough to think the setting for OS/2 to use
more than 64Mb on some motherboards was the topic.  You decided to add
irrelevant information about os memory management.  The discussion was on
a purely hardware level.  You and Bob were wrong but being such little
people you can't admit that.  You are free to cuss and name call all you
want.  The opinion of somebody that was obviously wrong and can't admit
that is an opinion that isn't valid in my eyes.

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Beats NT!
Date: 28 Oct 2000 16:32:28 GMT

In comp.os.linux.advocacy Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "Gardiner Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> 1. READ THE FUCKING POST, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FUCKING WEBSERVERS YOU
>> FUCKING CUNT HEAD, I AM TALKING ABOUT BIG FUCKING SERVERS USED INSIDE BIG
>> FUCKING CORPERATE NETWORKS SERVING HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF EMAILS, FILES
>> AND APPLICATIONS TO THOUSANDS OF USERS PER DAY.
> I did and you're still a fucking cunt head. servers inside big fucking
> companies DO prefer to run Windows - get used to it.

You mean medium sized servers for medium sized companies, of course.




=====.


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: MS Hacked?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:34:35 GMT

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 wrote
on Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:45:50 -0400
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>mlw wrote:
>> 
>> Stuart Fox wrote:
>> >
>> > Could the source code get out somehow, or is this just a hoax?
>> >
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_993000/993933.stm
>> >
>> 
>> Very cool. All we have to do is wait. Sooner or later the code will be
>> posted, and we will get a good laugh.
>
>I wonder how many fucking gotos are in the kernal?

Well, according to the following admittedly extremely simplistic pipeline,
we get:

$ cd /usr/src/linux
$ find . -name '*.c' | xargs grep goto | wc
   6841   22138  281521

which includes comments, strings, and constructs such as
"gotoxy()", "goto_low_power()", and "toshoboe_gotosleep()".

(This on a 2.2.15 kernel.)

Or are you referring to the NT kernel?  (Note that the Linux kernel
and the NT kernel may not be directly comparable, as the Linux kernel
includes device drivers, whereas the NT kernel may not.  At least,
that's my understanding.)

[.sigsnip]

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random lieutenant here

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: I'm sick and tired of you (was: Linux)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:21:10 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

It was the Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:10:51 GMT...
...and Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[schnibble]

You misparsed my posting.

Try again.

mawa
-- 
Warkus' Law of Puberty:
Any feeling you stumble upon in your youth that feels grand,
disquieting, even crushing to you, has already been experienced by
some random bloke 30 years ago and turned into song lyrics.

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Linux
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:22:28 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

It was the Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:00:57 GMT...
...and Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> "Matthias Warkus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >
> > However, *every* AOL idiot there is knows some guru they will run to
> > if something goes wrong. And the number of gurus who will, if annoyed
> > sufficiently, try to make the idiot switch to Linux just to solve
> > their problems once and for all and save their precious time is
> > increasing constantly :)
> 
> Kinder gurus don't waste their friends' time with recommendations that
> are inappropriate for them.

Your "answer" is not related to my statement. It seems that you're not
quite the man for semantics.

mawa
-- 
MSCE: Microsoft System Crash Explainer ("Bad hardware! Bad drivers!")
MCSE: Must Call Someone Experienced
MSCE: Microsoft Seems to Certify Everyone
                                                 -- from c.o.l.advocacy

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Another poor dork in deep shit, Claire!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:48:52 GMT

Not to mention the fact that I am getting tired of answering them for
him. 
I'm not a server person so he will have to look elsewhere for that
solution. Sorry.

claire

On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:05:48 +0200, "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>Guy,
>
>You are becoming a bit of a pain in the butt.  Claire/Steve is normally
>quite creative in her/his trolling - and therefore provides entertainment
>for many of us.  You on the other hand, now pasting in problems from other
>NGs, is behaving like a child.  But, perhaps you are one ...
>
>James
>

------------------------------

From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:37:20 GMT

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
  Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, hypothetically speaking, if Linux did all you wanted and more you
would
> replace Windows with Linux?

Correct! I'm just waiting for certain packages to appear (after all,
why would anyone continue to use a system that keeps crashing,
restoring configuration from six months ago - thank you scanreg!), I
downloaded the OSS files this morning, I'll see if my sound card works
with them.

My USB ZIP 250 drive was replaced, previous drive turned out to be
faulty. I'll see if Linux Mandrake 7.1 recognises it now (it did but
did not work last time).

Pete

--
---
Pete
Why don't I use Linux? Lack of hardware support for my sound card, for
one thing.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Hullo, Claire, James? Here's another dork for you
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:51:38 GMT

You post an entire YEARS worth of security problems with Windows.

I post ONE WEEKS worth with Linux, and my list is still longer than
yours.

Give it up. You need a few lessons in proper trolling technique.

I suggest you contact a person named Sponge. The master troller.


claire


On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:55:15 +0000, Jacques Guy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Security?
>
>PC Week:
> [ http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,2404702,00.html ] C2 rating
>at
>last!  (Ed Curry gets a mention)
>
>LWN:  [ http://lwn.net/daily/esr-cracked.html ] windows2000test cracked
>
>ZDNet:
> [ http://www.zdnet.com/pccomp/features/excl0298/shame/picks.html ] Usability 
>Hall
>of Fame, Hall of Shame
>
>Net4TV:
> [ http://net4tv.com/voice/story.cfm?StoryID=1823 ] WebTV Security Breach:
>Hijack
>Code Can Forward Stored Mail
>
>00-Jan ZDNet:
> [ http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2422687,00.html ] How to Steal
>2,500 Credit Cards
>
>00-Jan SecurityPortal:
> [ http://securityportal.com/cover/coverstory20000117.html ] Linux vs Microsoft:
>Who
>solves security problems faster?
>
>00-Jan ZDNet:
> [ http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/1,5859,2429536,00.html ] Raidnow:
>What's Wrong With Microsoft Security?
>
>00-Mar CNet:
> [ http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-1563391.html ] Curador credit card
>number
>hack
>
>00-Mar ZDNet:
> [
>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2473689,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01 ]
>Hackers got Bill Gates' credit card info
>
> Assorted vulnerabilities
>
>CEGadgets:
> [ http://www.cegadgets.com/artsusageP.htm ] CE's ActiveSync 2.x Allows
>Unauthorized
>Access to Your NT Password
>
>Microsoft:
> [ http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/fq00-015.asp ] Clip art
>vulnerability!
>
>00-Apr ZDNet:
> [ http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2543490,00.html ] Frontpage
>backdoor admission
>
>00-Apr LWN Eric Raymond:
> [ http://lwn.net/2000/0420/a/esr-fp.html ] Microsoft -- Designed for Insecurity
>
>00-May ZDNet:
> [ http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C2570727%2C00.html ]
>Microsoft's
>'Clippy' a security nightmare?
>
>00-Aug VNUNet:
> [ http://www.vnunet.com/News/1109106 ] Microsoft Active Directory problems
>linger
>
>00-Oct CNet:
> [ http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/03/nashaq.idg/index.html ] Hacker
>warns
>Nasdaq.com of security holes - October 3, 2000
>
>Gerrie Mansur, one of the leaders of Dutch hacking group Hit2000, gained
>access to the global.asa file from the Web servers of the news sites. This file
>regulates who gets access to what applications on the server. The file also
>defines what the applications can do and contains the global settings for the
>applications, as well as start-up and shutdown routines. Nasdaq's global.asa
>file
>contains the password to the site's main database, Mansur said.
>
>The news sites run on IIS (Internet Information Server) software from Microsoft.
>
> Viruses, worms and e-mail trojans
>
>00-Jan CNet:
> [ http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-1522362.html ] Windows 2000 virus
>detected
>
>SARC:
> [ http://www.sarc.com/avcenter/venc/data/sub.seven.20.html ] SubSeven (Windows
>trojan)
>
>00-Mar Wired:
> [ http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,35045,00.html ] WebTV's
>'Non-Virus'
>Virus
>
>00-May TMF:
> [ http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1180128007357046&sort=postdate ]
>RFC1521 on
>email attachments
>
>As you can see, by executing an attachment using an interpreter of some type
>(whether it
>be IE, Word, VB, or a native executable), Outlook is exposing a well known
>security
>hole
>that is specifically warned against in the MIME specification.
>
>00-May ZDNet:
> [ http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C2572469%2C00.html ] NewLove
>bug
>nastier than ILOVEYOU
>
>00-May Wired:
> [ http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,36439,00.html ] Worm Wreaked Gov't
>Havoc
>
>00-May ABC:
> [ http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/Virus000526.html ] `Killer
>Resume'
>Doing a Job on E-Mail Systems
>
>00-Aug Cnet:
> [ http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-2549828-0.html ] Consumers open email to
>targeted virus attacks
>
> Internet Explorer holes
>
>CNN:
> [ http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9911/23/active.scripting/index.html ]
>Protection against IE holes may create more  problems than solutions
>
>00-Apr CNet:
> [ http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-1717460.html ] Microsoft browser bug may
>access private files
>
>00-May Peacefire:
> [ http://www.peacefire.org/security/iecookies/ ] Internet Explorer "Open Cookie
>Jar"
>
>Any Web site that uses cookies to authenticate users or store private
>information --
>including Amazon.com, HotMail, Yahoo Mail,
>DoubleClick, MP3.com, NYTimes.com, and thousands of others -- could have cookies
>exposed by Internet Explorer and intercepted
>by a third-party Web site.
>
>00-Aug Cnet:
> [ http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2522411.html ] Bug hunter spies holes in
>Windows, IE 5.x
>
>00-Oct CNet:
> [ http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2710872.html ] IE security bug leaves
>files
>vulnerable
>
>00-Oct CNet:
> [ http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2939733.html ] Bug hunter finds another
>hole
>in Microsoft IE browser
>
> Privacy sneakiness
>
>99-Oct TechWeb:
> [ http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19991015S0016 ] Who do you TRUSTe? 
>(Hotmail
>carries viruses)
>
>Hotmail still leaks up to 56 of the Internet's most virulent
>viruses, despite Microsoft's claim that it had patched
>security at the trouble-prone e-mail service, according to
>anti-virus experts.
>
>00-Sep Cnet:
> [ http://n
>
>Full text at: http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/edcurry/security.html
>
>Posted with: http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=596972256&fmt=text
>
>http:  www angelfire com nj2 edcurry security html web2news.pl


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Slackware
Date: 28 Oct 2000 16:52:31 GMT


Aaron R. Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

: Keep them in your basement, and be the first person on your block
: who has a furnace that can do 10 Gigaflops.

That's the whole idea of Linux Extreme! (: Upstairs, you have the terminal so 
you can login as root to make your math models. 10 gigaflops could do some 
serious math, plenty enough to develop anything you want. The fun problem is 
the money to build what you develop on your homebrew HAL. 

Remember that those Bobcat front-end-loaders make for great pods, as in "open 
the pod bay door HAL". Problem is that a Bobcat can't hit lightspeed like the 
movie... (: 

--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:18:56 -0400

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen) said:

>In article <39fac6cd$3$yrgbherq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 10/27/00 
>>   at 02:31 PM, chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>>>That is because you're an asshole who refuses to understand or consider any
>>>>argument you don't want to hear.   Your parents really should not breed any
>>>>more like you.
>>
>>>Why, there's a lot of factual information.
>>
>>>Sore loser.  You lose the arguement, so you lash out with insults.
>>
>>Ah, another asshole arrives. Are you a friend of Jason or just another idiot
>>troll? 
>>
>>There is no factual that the cache is the factor that so overwhelmingly
>>controls performance and *user productivity*  that nothing else matters.  This
>>is jasons claim. And it is what he ignores, in order to focus on a tiny point
>>so he can be the big guy in more then his dreams.

>We were talking about hardware and accesses to memory.  Ed was dumb enough to
>try to claim that OS/2 somehow made these accesses faster.  If he could admit
>his error
>>
>>His claim, is like saying tire tread design is the factor that decides how
>>fast the operator can actually drive a car in the real world -- and all other
>>factors, even when you put them all together, cannot out weigh the effect of
>>tread design.
>> 

>We weren't talking about the overall system, this is something you've tried
>to add to save face and it isn't working you dishonest asshole.

What you mean here is that when in a discussion that you are whining (or think
you are), that no one can point out there is a whole forest and not just the
one tree you are looking at.  

This is why you are an asshole.  You can't see the forest from the trees --
and you have continued to carry a grudge over it for nearly a year.  Face it,
you're a petty, whiney, little idiot who can't stand anyone who sees you for
what you are.  Go home and growup little boy.

BTW, I use to do the technical hiring for a very large A/E.  I have seen
enough of you to understand that you could not be assigned to shovel shit with
any confidence, because the instant there was a change in the texture or
color, you couldn't be depended on to figure out if it was still shit. 


 
===========================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===========================================================


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:16:48 -0400

In <8teuj4$rlg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 10/28/00 
   at 04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen) said:

>Since you feel that you were right Ed, describe the cpu cache on any x86
>processor and specifically the caching of the 430VX chipset.  The topic at
>hand was the 430VX and it's inability to cache more than 64Mb of ram. This
>means that everytime an address above 64Mb was used the cpu had to fetch it
>from memory as opposed to first hitting the cache, this is a huge performance
>hit.  This was the topic and no software will make hardware run faster.  Bob
>was stupid enough to think the setting for OS/2 to use more than 64Mb on some
>motherboards was the topic.  You decided to add irrelevant information about
>os memory management.  The discussion was on a purely hardware level.  You
>and Bob were wrong but being such little people you can't admit that.  You
>are free to cuss and name call all you want.  The opinion of somebody that
>was obviously wrong and can't admit that is an opinion that isn't valid in my
>eyes.

Listen you idiot -- Can you read? I never said software will make hardware run
faster. What I said, and which you are obviously are incapable of
understanding -- is that this hardware limitation does not matter in terms of
real-world productivity.   

You ***really need to talk with a shrink***  to find out why being right --
when in fact you are not right in the context of the larger argument, and you
have to continue for years with a grudge over it.  Now go find a good shrink
and shut up.  


-- 
===========================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===========================================================


------------------------------

From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:25:11 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Said Charlie Ebert in comp.os.linux.advocacy; 
>JS/PL wrote:
>
>> "Jim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Well said, way too many people are looking the other way when it comes to
>> > Microsofts anti-customer anti-competition antic. I actually had a
>> > conversation with someone today who said "well we don't even know if
>> Novell
>> > will be around"  WE DON"T KNOW IF MICROSOFT WILL BE AROUND in its current
>> > state. Novell didn't lose a huge case to the US Gov.
>>
>> We know Microsoft will be around. It is a certainty. Worst case scenario is
>> that they get split which has about a 1 in 1000 chance of happening in
>> itself. But even if it does happen by some miracle, they'll still be here
>> for a LONG LONG time.
>
>Could we have this printed on some big piece of granite please?

LOL!

It is a virtual certainty that MS will be split up.  Despite the
rhetoric based on the presumption that the MS II decision (which
overturned the preliminary injunction in the contempt case which
preceded the anti-trust prosecution) somehow provides a rebuttal to the
conviction, which it preceded, the anti-trust law and precedent is
firmly on Judge Jackson's side.  In point of fact, it was the very
reasoning provided by the Appellate Court in MS II which guided Jackson
in presenting a conviction.  The controlling precedent clearly states
that if there is demand for separate products, a company with market
power which seeks to combine products without continuing to serve the
demand for separate products is acting anti-competitively.  There is no
valid reason, the theory goes, for a company to turn down a profit
opportunity, save the illegal one: it will build or maintain a monopoly.

I suspect, as stated by some others, that Linux PCs will be the "must
have" Christmas Gift in 2001.  Microsoft as we know it will, indeed, be
destroyed.  Which is all well and good, because despite Rex Ballard's
belief, their software is crap, and gets crappier with every version.
This isn't just idle bitching; in a monopoly market, software products
are practically *required* to get just a bit worse, at least, than what
they are replacing, thus assuring a future revenue stream for upgrades.
Who, after all, would buy new software if the stuff they have already
worked perfectly fine?  Thus, it is in the monopolist's interest to
ensure their software is bad enough to guarantee nobody will want to
keep it, but also barely good enough (at least the hype for it) so that
the market doesn't entirely refuse to accept it.  Note the steadily
lesser enthusiasm which Win98, Win98SE, Win98ME, and Win2K have been
greeted with.

A domino effect forces other software developers to do likewise; the
greatest profit is derived by making your product progressively less
useful, but progressively more "irreplaceable".  Even Linux itself is
not immune to this effect; the market demand is obverse, as consumers
are forced to encourage anti-competitive development, since competitive
development would only make their chosen solution more of a target,
assuring it will not be around in the future.  The software industry is
caught up in the process of selling *new* software, rather than
developing *better* software.

But splitting up Microsoft, though it will destroy the monopoly, will
obviously not destroy the company.  Instead, it will force (and allow)
MS-OS to compete with MS-APPs, and vice-versa.  Whether either are
capable of contributing to the development (or migration) of Win32
remains to be seen, but it will be a competitive market, regardless of
how the industry adapts to the change.

-- 
T. Max Devlin
  *** The best way to convince another is
          to state your case moderately and
             accurately.   - Benjamin Franklin ***


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------------------------------

From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Beats NT!
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:20:53 +0100

Drestin Black wrote:
> 
> "Gardiner Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > 1. READ THE FUCKING POST, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FUCKING WEBSERVERS YOU
> > FUCKING CUNT HEAD, I AM TALKING ABOUT BIG FUCKING SERVERS USED INSIDE BIG
> > FUCKING CORPERATE NETWORKS SERVING HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF EMAILS, FILES
> > AND APPLICATIONS TO THOUSANDS OF USERS PER DAY.
> I did and you're still a fucking cunt head. servers inside big fucking
> companies DO prefer to run Windows - get used to it.
> >
> > 2. TCP.ORG IS ACTUALLY THE WEBSITE FOR THE TEXAS CHURCH PLANTERS YOU
> FUCKING
> > CUNT HEAD, GET A FUCKING LIFE YOU FUCKING DICK HEAD.
> No, it's not you fucking dick head:

No, shit-for-brains, tcp.org is for texas church planters. Read the post
before flaming. He said tcp, not tpc. Spot the difference.

Wanker.

-Ed


> 
> Registrant:
> TPC (TPC2-DOM)
>    777 N. First Street
>    San Jose, CA 95112
>    US
> 
>    Domain Name: TPC.ORG
> 
>    Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:
>       Lawson, Lucinda  (KS10123)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>       TPC
>       650 N. Winchester Blvd, Ste 1
>       San Jose, CA 95128
>       408-295-6411 (FAX) 408-271-6648
>    Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
>       @Work Hostmaster (WH76-ORG)  (WH76-ORG)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>       AT&T Hostmaster / @Work Division
>       425 Broadway Street
>       Redwood City, CA 94063
>       US
>       1-888-456-WORK
>       Fax- 1-650-569-5101
> 
>    Record last updated on 22-Jan-1999.
>    Record expires on 08-Mar-2001.
>    Record created on 07-Mar-1995.
>    Database last updated on 25-Oct-2000 21:12:07 EDT.
> 
>    Domain servers in listed order:
> 
>    NS1.HOME.NET                 24.0.0.27
>    NS2.HOME.NET                 24.2.0.27
> 
> >
> > 3. RESEARCHED A NUMBER OF SITES (YAHOO.COM, GOOGLE.COM, REAL.COM,
> > WHITEHOUSE.GOV, BE.COM, IBM.COM, APPLE.COM, ZDNET.COM, WINZIP.COM) ALL USE
> A
> > UNIX VARIANT INSTEAD OF WINDOWS, GET THE FUCKING HINT, NOBODY WANTS TO USE
> > WINDOWS AS A WEBSERVER EXCEPT FOR THOSE TO GUTLESS TO STAND UP AGAINST THE
> > WINTEL MONOPOLY.
> 
> Researched another number of sites (microsoft.com, dell.com,
> barnesandnoble.com, hotmail.com, msn.com, lycos.com, nasdaq.com, nfl.com,
> disney.com, intel.com, hotbot.com, bigcharts.com) and they all use Windows
> instead of another forked variant of some fragmented code. get the fucking
> hint?

-- 
Konrad Zuse should  recognised. He built the first      | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the   | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first   | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4).                                    | eng.ox.ac.uk

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