Linux-Advocacy Digest #937, Volume #29 Mon, 30 Oct 00 06:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: MS Hacked? (2:1)
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Terry Porter)
Re: Why don't I use Linux? (2:1)
Re: Why don't I use Linux? (2:1)
Re: Why don't I use Linux? ("David Brown")
Re: The BEST ADVICE GIVEN. (2:1)
Re: Hullo, Claire, James? Here's another dork for you (2:1)
Re: sound software (2:1)
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Weevil")
Re: Linux in approximately 5 years: ("Darren Winsper")
Re: Astroturfing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: MS Hacked? ("Weevil")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS Hacked?
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:40:36 +0000
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > > That's just it. Many of MS's tech support people (those people that
> write
> > > most of the samples) *ARE* still in college, or are very recent
> graduates.
> > >
> > > College teaches you theory, and very little practice.
> >
> > Have things really gone that far downhill since I went to college?
> > Structured programming and no or very limited use of gotos was drilled
> into me
> > about a quarter century ago.
>
> Well, structured programming is kind of a dinosaur these days. But still,
> students are told not to use goto's, but never why. This causes many of
> them that might already have programming experience to just discard it as
> old style beliefs.
>
> Most of the college graduates I have interviewed in the last 5 years have
> been very light on practical application of the theory they've learned.
In Senior school a few years back, I worked on a joint project with 3
other friends. One of the group wasn't a fan of subroutines. That taught
very well to drop excessive use of gotos.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:56:08 -0600
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > There is no evidence to support this. Netcraft does not count the
number of
> > servers, it only counts the number of hosts. A single server can have
> > multiple, even 10's of thousands of hosts.
>
> There are a few interesting statistics here:
>
> (A) Multiple servers per IP in a load balanced environment.
> (B) Multiple IPs/Host names per server.
>
> There is no real evidence that the ratio of A to B varies across OS. So
> one these are irrelevant.
Take a look at the typical Linux site, then compare that to the typical IIS
site.
How many multi-server load balanced Linux sites can you come up with?
Google is a good one, but it's a rarity.
Meanwhile, Look at sites like microsoft.com, barnesandnoble.com, ebay,
NASDAQ, and hundreds of other major ebusiness sites that all run mutiple IIS
hosts on a single site.
Linux seems to run several "domain squatter" sites, where they register
hundreds or thousands of domains and direct them to the same server.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 30 Oct 2000 09:54:09 GMT
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:58:47 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"XYZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> My thoughts on Windows 2000....
>>
>> What a bug-ridden piece of shit. If I burn an audio CD, everything works
>fine,
>> but don't try burning another after it! The CD Writer driver (or something
>in
>> the subsystem) fucks itself up after the first burn...when you're burning
>the
>> second CD, it gets all the way to the end, then when it is 75% through
>burning
>> the last track, the whole application just disappears, and the CD Writer
>locks
>> up and won't let you eject the CD. Then when you play it, it plays fine,
>> except for the spot where it stopped writing on the last track. What
>absolute
>> dogshit. So I have to burn a CD, reboot, burn another, reboot.
>
>CD-R type, version, and driver used.
>Win2k type, version
Obv a Microsoft version ?
>Computer details?
One that runs Win2k obv ?
>Application that you use?
Windows applications obv again ?
>
>> I'm using beta video drivers...and due to the shitty design of the Win2000
>> kernel, a problem in the driver will just spontaneously reboot the
>computer
>> without any fanfare.
>
>Well, it just proves that you don't know much about win2k.
Win2k hasnt been out long, does he need to be a CSE to use it ?
>Right click my computer > propeties >Advace > StartUp & Recovery, uncehck
>"Automatically Reboot"
>Write down the BSOD, 99% that you've a driver/hardware failure.
A proprietary one no doubt, how can he fix it ?
>Video card type/driver type?
He's probably runing the one that came with the videocard, written by the vendor
after signing NDA'a with Microsoft ?
>Why are you blaming win2k for your fault at using beta drivers in the first
>place?
I thought Win2k had all the drivers, and all the software, just ask
"Claire_Lynn" our resident Wintroll ?
>
>> Did I mention that you *still* can't reliably kill a hung process in
>Windoze?
>> I have to physically unplug the goddamn machine from the wall when a
>process
>> gets hung...I can't even reboot...and I can't hit the reset button on the
>> hardware because of the power-management crap. I thought one of the
>> fundamental jobs of an operating system was to manage processes...how the
>FUCK
>> did that requirement slip past the Winblows engineers?
>
>Get the NT Option pack , nice little utility there called Kill.exe
He needs MORE software ???
Doesnt Win2k have all the utilities he needs to maintain his system ?
>But 90% of the time you can make do with "net stop" or simply End Task from
^^^^^^^ the Windows catchcry!
>windows task manager
>
>Hold power button for 6 seconds, it will turn itself off.
>It was build this was so you wouldn't accidently turn the computer off.
>
>> Try running an old DOS game under Win2K? Forget about it. Alt-TAB out of
>it
>> and you're done. If you're lucky, it'll reboot automatically. Otherwise,
>yank
>> that plug again.
>
>What game, what version?
Dos ?
>What are you doing running DOS games?
Doesnt Microsoft Win2k handle DOS games ? My Linux desktop does under DOSEMU.
>And why are you yanking the cord anyway?
He said the Win2k is locked up I believe ?
>
>> Fucking Windows 2000. None of the myriad of serious design flaws in the
>> previous versions of Windows have been addressed, but at least in this
>version
>> I have animated menus, a fancier taskbar, a new recycle bin icon.
>
>What are those serious design flaws?
Please read the posters article above ?
>
>> You know, Linux was a bit buggy at first...so was Solaris...but over time
>they
>> get more and more robust and stable and foolproof...but not Windows. It's
>the
>> same piece of bug-infested dogshit that it was from day one.
>
>You've never used NT, I understand. Or 98/95, for that matter.
Is that necessary ?
Isnt Win2k *easy* to use ?
>
>
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours 22 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:50:34 +0000
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2:1) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >> And I write letters with it.
> >>
> >> And I write reports with it.
> >
> >I write letters and reports in LaTeX. Your point?
>
> Your statement that Word is "fuck all use" is wrong.
Mabey it's exaggerated. It's not much use.
> >You make trollish claims about Linux (the one about cryptic names for
> >instance) and ignore everyone who tells oyu about packages that you
> >want. That's why I thought that. So far, you have given me no reason to
> >change my thoughts.
>
> Ah yes, Gimp is somehow better than PSP. Yet I've pointed out features that
> PSP has that GIMP doesn't. Somehow, GIMP is supposed to be superior than
> PSP?
In the UNIX world, multiple features are gained by using multiple
programs. Us xv as an image browser. Use GIMP as an image editor. The
windows way and the UNIX way are different. You don't want to accept the
UNIX way (or you'd use a seperate program as an image browser). Your
lack of acceptance does not make it worse.
> Cryptic names are too common on Linux. Does a user know what 'cat' or 'ls'
> or 'grep' or 'pwd' mean? As opposed to 'type', 'dir', 'find'?
find exists in UNIX. dir is as cryptic as ls. And you wouldn't know ehat
any of them did without being told. The only exception is find, but you
wouldn't know what it was supposed to find (hint, it does different
things in UNIX and DOS).
I think mscdex is more cryptic than mount. I don't even know what it
stands for when I do know how to use it.
> And that makes me a "troll"? Sheesh!
What makes you a troll is that you think that an cryptically names app
under windows (such as paradox etc...) is somehow less cryptic than
under UNIX.
I said Exel is a cryptic name. You said it isn't because I know what it
means. That meand that NONE of the UNIX commands are cryptic because I
know what they do. Clearly, that's bollocks.
> --
> Pete Goodwin
> ---
> Why don't I use Linux?
> Waiting for Borland to release Delphi.
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:52:01 +0000
Ray Wright wrote:
>
> Paradox is a desktop database system like MS Access.
>
Oh.
It lookes vaguely spreadsheety, but I didn't spend long looking. Proves
my point about cryptic anmes, though :-)
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:54:19 +0100
Les Mikesell wrote in message ...
>
>"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2:1) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> Cryptic names are too common on Linux. Does a user know what 'cat' or
'ls'
>> or 'grep' or 'pwd' mean? As opposed to 'type', 'dir', 'find'?
>
>The meaning of cat, ls, grep, and pwd haven't changed in 30 or so years.
>They weren't cryptic then and they aren't now. If you want cryptic,
>tell me why 'dir *.txt' and 'type *.txt' don't operate on the same list
>of files? And why doesn't the dos version of 'find' do something useful?
>
And why is it so difficult to get information about Windows command line
commands? In UNIX, you type "-?" after almost all commands to get a short
summary of usage, or you can use man. You also get (in most shells) command
line completion for the command name. In Windows, there are at least 5
standards for quick help (no parameters, -?, /?, -h, /h) and help pages may
or may not be available.
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The BEST ADVICE GIVEN.
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:54:32 +0000
Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:5e7L5.12291$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:0k5L5.116868$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > Do you think there is some challenge in tricking an
> > > > average user?
> > >
> > > No I don't. Thats why Open Source is scary. The source code means you
> can
> > > create a binary with a back door that has the exact same functionality
> as
> > > the original binary.
> >
> > What does open source have to do with this capability? Rename the
> > original,
> > replace it with a trojan of the same name that does some dirty deed, then
> > runs the original and you are all set. In fact, that is basically the
> > description
> > of the way Microsoft was recently hacked. Or you can replace a dll.
>
> The difference is that the functionality is much, much harder to duplicate
> if you don't have the source.
>
> With Open Source, the program could still do everything it is supposed to
> do -- except it could do something extra.
If you're paranoid, you can check the PGP signature.
Besides, the same has been done to notepad by various worms.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hullo, Claire, James? Here's another dork for you
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:57:31 +0000
Todd wrote:
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Actually you've got me wrong on that count. I find it hysterical that
> > MS gets hacked. Sorry, I don't sing the MS line, never have. I use the
> > OS because it works for me. I play Flight Simulator because I like it.
> > Those are the only MS programs on my machines.
> > I also agree with MS pulling dirty tricks especially with Digital
> > Research and Stac, and I lived through the campaign to destroy OS/2.
>
> Please. I used to use and advocate OS/2 since version OS/2 2.0 beta. OS/2
> was not destroyed by MS. It was destroyed by IBM.
So it's not true that MS worked on Windows when they were being payed to
work on OS/2 then?
-Ed
>
> IBM failed to fix many of the problems that its very own users (including
> myself) identified. For example, the infamous SIQ problem (no, don't tell
> me that Warp 4 fixed it because it *did not*.)
>
> There are so many other examples as well. IBM gave up. MS pushed on.
>
> If you want to compete with MS, you need to be determined, aggressive, have
> good people talent, etc. Of course, today, many people hire lawyers since
> they can't complete with MS.
>
> Oh well.
>
> -Todd
>
> >
> > claire
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:47:11 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Windows is SOOOOO GOOOOD Claire_Lynn that
> > >they stole the whole W2K code base.
> > >
> > >It's good to the last byte.
> > >
> > >And it makes a wonderful communist operating system.
> > >
> > >
> > >Charlie
> > >
> > >
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > >> I know that. No OS is immune and there will always be somebody who can
> > >> come up with a better mouse, despite state of the art mousetraps.
> > >>
> > >> claire
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:43:48 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck) wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:51:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >>You post an entire YEARS worth of security problems with Windows.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>I post ONE WEEKS worth with Linux, and my list is still longer than
> > >> >>yours.
> > >> >
> > >> >If you were to subscribe to BugTraq for a period of time, you would
> > >> >quickly discover that Windows does not have significantly fewer
> > >> >security problems than Linux. To think otherwise is to stick one's
> > >> >head in the sand.
> >
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: sound software
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:03:03 +0000
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "2:1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > I know there's a large number of knowledgable people here on cola, so I
> > thought I'd try here first.
> >
> > I have searched, so don't flame.
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know of an mp3 to wav converter (must be command line
> > based). There seem to be lots that go in the other direction.
>
> Sox will convert among most sound formats. If you are planning
> to create a CD be sure to find the example command for the
> correct sample rate, etc.
I want an mp3 to au convertor so I can play files when the computer is
heavily loaded.
As for mp3 to wav: I af trying to find a good off the shelf compressor
for ECG signals. I have a hunch that mp3 encoding might be very useful.
Obviously, I need to convert to and from MP3.
> > Also how do you play wavs under linux. .au seems to be OK (cat *.au >
> > /dev/audio) and it there a wav to au (and reverse) converter anywhere
>
> Xmms is good under X. I suppose you can pipe through sox to
> convert to au on the command line.
Ah. I've got xmms.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:22:32 -0600
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:L61L5.4936$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "2:1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Forward compatibiliy is a problem. You can't run large databases,
> > > seeks on large files, or large streaming files until you've upgraded
> > > to the 2.4 kernel. This especially limits databases, and video
> > > editing. Uncompressed HTDV video consumes about 8 megabytes/second.
> > > A 2 hour movie can require around 60 gigabytes. NTSC requires 1/2
> > > that.
> >
> > IIRC 2.2 on 64 bit (proper) computers can handle large files
>
> This is true, because ints in 64 bit computers are 64 bit, thus allowing
the
> file system to be a signed 63 bit integer.
>
> However, this also illustrates another problem. It's physically
impossible
> to take such a formatted disk and put it into a 32 bit computer. For
> instance, suppose I have a 2.5 GB removable disk that I want to share
> between my Alpha and Intel PC's. Can't do it.
>
You seem to be confused between accessing a storage medium and accessing a
file on that storage medium. It is obviously not "physically impossible"
for a 32 bit system to use a removable disk > 2 GB. If it were, then
floppies could never be bigger than 64 K on 16 bit systems (such as DOS, WIN
3.x, etc). A filesystem need not address the storage medium down to the
byte level, though the closer it gets, the more efficiently it uses the
medium. That's why FAT16 is so hugely inefficient.
jwb
------------------------------
From: "Darren Winsper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux in approximately 5 years:
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:24:50 -0000
"javaduke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> 4. Netscape 6 Finally released.
Netscape 6 is closer than you think.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:15:35 -0500
In <8tht0a$h07$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 10/29/00
at 07:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen) said:
>In article <39fc5f1f$2$yrgbherq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>Ummm why don't you go to deja.com/usenet and prove this Ed. The whole
>>>discussion was about the hardware caching and nothing more, any other
>>>tangents were irrelevant. We weren't talking about a whole system and only
>>>dishonest assholes that lost on that point tried to take it somewhere else.
>>>Now weren't you going to put me in you're "twit filter" or are you lying
>>>again?
>>
>>
>>I decided to hang around and see how mad you get. Looking at your last message
>>you are so angry that you can't see straight -- or more exactly get your story
>>straight. It all goes back to the same thing; you are in a grudge match. You
>>were winning a point, and someone else (me) came along and took away your
>>sandbox victory. You can't go home to mommy and cry, so you keep popping up
>>here to inject me into this or that, every time the chance comes up.
>I'm not mad, actually delighted that several times you haven't been able to
>reply to the points. Sad to see OS/2 advocates posting for entertainment
>purposes. Hey Ed, prove that I lost some point. We were talking at a purely
>hardware level. Of course things change in a whole system. Take a cpu with
>no cache so that all memory accesses have to go to the bus. Place two
>different operating systems with different memory access schemes and you will
>see different performance all else being equal. I wasn't winning a point and
>then losing it. The topic was hardware caching and some people didn't
>understand it. The point was the cpu and chipset only caching 64Mb of
>memory.
>>
>>You have been doing this for several monts now and I have your messages to
>>prove it. So we know exactly what you are; an angry little boy who lost an
>>internet game and keeps crying about it for months and months, and who will
>>continue until you grow up -- which in your case may well never happen.
>>
>Prove it with Deja links. It started with Bob Germer arguing about a bios
>switch and me and a few others pointed out that he didn't know what the hell
>he was talking about. Then you tried to bring up the caching routines which
>was irrelevant to the hardware topic at hand. Why is this so hard for you to
>understand. We were talking about memory acccess always going to the bus and
>you tried to steer the topic to something that didn't enter in to the
>conversation.
>>So, see ya junior. When you growup and want to have an adult conversation let
>>me know.
>>
>Your attempts at being trite are tired.
Blah, Blah, Blah...Listen up you junior twerp -- you have brought up this
issue at every unrelated opportunity for several months now. Which ironically,
is exactly what you are trying to complain about me doing -- Only I had a
point with relevance to the larger issue that you can't comprehend.
Now, I frankly don't care what you are trying to prove -- Because what you
have proved is that you are petty, immature, stupid little jerk who will carry
a grudge for months and inject it whenever there is a chance to. (and its
probably due to your unhappy miserable little life that you can't stand, more
then anything else).
Now, its time for you shut up and kiss off. -- I don't expect you to go away,
because it appears you have a history of this stuff elsewhere too -- but I do
hope that anyone who considers hiring you is smart enough to check out your
infantile prattling (and you should be ashamed of some of the idiot stuff you
have put out on the internet) before giving you an offer letter.
And finally, I think it might be time to teach you a real lesson -- so if you
continue this drivel, I will set up a filter to forward all of your on-going
verbal diarrhea to your department head. They should not be giving out
recommendations to people like you. -- I took a quick sampling of your posts
around the net. You are a shallow, petty, idiot. You don't use OS2, yet the
records show that you spend the vast majority of your time looking for fights
in the OS2 groups. And when your not in them, you are picking fights with
others all over the place. You are a classic troll and not a very bright one
at that, since you are using a university system to do it -- knowing it is
against policy.
BTW, I was particularly amused (in light of your comments here about pop
psychology), when you called someone a latent homosexual because he referred
to penis envy in a post. -- Its not too bright to be doing this stuff and then
complaining here when someone else does it.
Now why don't you troll on over the student union and try and find a real
person to talk with -- or have you been bared from there too for being the
asshole you show up everywhere else as?
===========================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===========================================================
------------------------------
From: "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS Hacked?
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 05:09:42 -0600
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:t9bL5.5022$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I guess things have changed. When I went to school, we had a old IBM
> 360.
> > All programs were typed up on punched cards and submitted to batch.
> > Turn-around time near the end of the sumester was up to a week. Under
> those
> > circumstances, you really only had one or at best two chances to get it
> > right. It was obvious at the time why gotos were bad - they made it
> more
> > likely that the program wouldn't work on first try and you could end up
> > failing the course.
>
> Huh? Goto's do not make code any more or less likely to work. They do
make
> the code more difficult to maintain over time. The programmer writing the
> code knows exactly what the goto is doing at the time, but a year later
that
> same programmer might not have a clue, or might miss the program flow
> because of a goto.
Rampant use of goto's most definitely make code less likely to work. The
programmer writing the code might *think* he knows what's going on at the
time, but the very fact that the program flow jumps around makes it more
likely that the programmer is missing something that will bite him later.
The less trivial the code, the more likely the programmer will lose the
thread of what's going on if he uses gotos all over the place. This will
occur while he's writing it. A year later it will be 10 times worse.
That's not to say that this is the worst thing about indisriminate use of
gotos. But it definitely can be a problem. Once you get past what seems to
be a natural human impulse to use them, code is easier to write, easier to
debug, easier to maintain, easier to modify successfully, etc.
jwb
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