Linux-Advocacy Digest #937, Volume #34 Sun, 3 Jun 01 14:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Windows makes good coasters (drsquare)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the (drsquare)
Re: UI Importance (drsquare)
Re: UI Importance (drsquare)
Re: RIP the Linux desktop (drsquare)
Re: A Newbie Linux User Asks: (drsquare)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (drsquare)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (drsquare)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (drsquare)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (drsquare)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
(drsquare)
Re: Very interesting cracker article, and XP warning. (drsquare)
Re: What does Linux need for the desktop? (drsquare)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 18:04:24 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> > Interesting. So beta testing is an idea MS stole from
> > open-source software, in your world. :D
>
> This is why you have been called dishonest. You know this is NOT what I
> am suggesting. I am suggestionf that m$ took a hint from other
> developers and sent there software out to the genreal public to beta
> test. intheis way, their numbes of testers grew exponentioally, and they
> were to find many more bus this way... though they didnt necessarily fix
> all of them.
Oh, I see. You mean they "stole" beta testing from
other commercial vendors. My mistake, very sorry.
[snip]
> > There's a lot more to software QA than
> > beta-testing!
>
> So you are saying Open source software is not QA'd? Id dont think that
> is true. i think you dont know what in hell you are talking about.
Well, it *is* "QA'd" in the sense that it has something
akin to an open beta, but frankly that's not much to
write home about.
The structure of OSS projects makes it ratjer hard
to do many of the techniques commercial developers
do you. You can have code readings, yes, but not
walkthroughs or inspections. You can have unit tests,
but only if your contributors feel like writing them.
[snip]
> > Well, the short answer is that there aren't all that many
> > apps for X-Windows.
>
> There arent? have you actually lookid at the number of packages included
> with a distro> Have you checked Freshmeat, Sourceforge, Rufus? I didnt
> think so. Go look. Now.
Those darned bundling *fiends*! Have they no
decency! :D
[snip]
> You cut comments from here...
I always cut comments that don't
merit response. Saves on bandwidth.
[snip]
> > > > If this is what you are after, then X is really
> > > >
> > >
> > > So are you saying *nix apps cross platofrms better than m$ apps?
> >
> > Well, only if you mean "hardware platforms"; they
> > don't port to other OSes particularly well, naturally.
> >
>
> You are the one that made the coment baout protability being a strenght.
Of Unix, not its apps.
C'mon Rick, this business of pretending I said
things I patently did not is getting quite
tiresome. It's okay to do it in fun, but don't
be a one-trick pony about it.
[snip]
> > > Nope.. you said they were almost exactly the same and equal ...
> >
> > I didn't say that. I did say the thing about the
> > chromosone count, but "equal"? Not likely.
>
> The context was they were so close when you were takling about one, you
> could be talking about the other.
Oh, come now. That's just silly.
> This is another reason you have been
> called dishonest. Quit removing content and context.
Do you have any idea how big this thread
woud be if someone wasn't being selective about
what is worth answer, and what is not?
[snip]
> > > Gnome Foundation? Whats that, and who would they sue? And why?
> >
> > It's the only organization related to Gnome that
> > I can think of, which MS might sue if they felt
> > like it.
>
> There is the GNU project at the Free Software Foundation. I dont know
> about a GNU Foundation. There may be one. What is their URL ?
Go to www.gnome.org; there's a FAQ about them
there.
[snip]
> > > why would they sue?
> >
> > Presuambly for the money- that's the usual
> > reason. If there was any money to be get
> > this way, anyway.
>
> Why would they sue? What would be the basis of the suit? Who would sue
> whom? Go check out google to replace the content you have removed.
I haven't forgotten. You have been thrashing about
rather randomly, trying to either prove that I was wrong
to say that OLE and Bonobo are identical, or
else that I was wrong to say that OLE and Bonobo
are not identical.
As part of the former effort, you asked if
MS could sue somebody over the similarities,
and I said they probably could- such things
have happened in the past.
You then asked why they don't, and I postulated
that they didn't because there is no money in
suing people and organizations that don't have
much money, and so little to gain.
I don't think there's any problem here.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:25 +0100
On 3 Jun 2001 15:14:23 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
([EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)) wrote:
>drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 03 Jun 2001 06:08:25 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>>>While you're correct, the GIMPis still a very capable graphics program.
>
>> But not quite as capable as PSP.
>Actually, you wouldnt know. You have already shown over and over that you
>do not understand even the simplest software (Forte Agent) and that you
I understand Forte Agent perfectly well.
>are loathe to read instructions. The fact is, you have no idea WHAT
>the gimp can do, because you are retarded and useless.
I doubt anyones retardedness is the reason the GIMP isn't as good as
Paint shop pro, apart from the GIMP programmers.
>>>This is the problem as I see it, Windows *only* costs around $100 -$300,
>>>PSP another hundred, Agent another ??, etc, etc.
>
>> Not when you crack it.
>There are those of us out there who hold stations in life in which it is not
>wise to crack every single piece of software we want.
Any reasons perhaps?
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:27 +0100
On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:35:29 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(Marc Schlensog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>drsquare wrote:
>> Lawsuits because someone can't use a mouse properly? 99% of people use
>> a 2+ button mouse with NO problems whatsoever. Lawsuits? We'll end up
>> like american in two years.
>It isn't the inability to use a mouse properly, you little ignorant shit.
>The problem in question is, that excessive use of keyboards and mice lead,
>due to their unnatural and mostly unergonomic shape, to the so called
>carpal tunnel syndrom, which is said to be very painful. And you know how
>many ppl don't have an education on how to properly use a computer (there's
>more to that, than just a mouse).
Well, out of the thousands of people I know that use mice, none of
them have any trouble using mice.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:27 +0100
On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 18:18:20 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>"Nico Coetzee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> # cp *jpg /mnt/floppy
>
>I'm going to translate it to Windows, if you don't mind.
>
>WinKey+R (load Run Dialog)
>cmd
>cd "my d" + tab to get my documents
>cd "my p" + tab to get my pictures
>copy *.jpg a:
>
>(It would be much longer on Win9x based systems.)
Not if they're using bash under cygwin.
>> Total Clicks: 7 or more clicks.
>Let me give you a shorthanded version of this?
>WinKey+E (launch explorer)
>Press up key to go to My Documents, (or F4)
F4 doesn't seem to do anything. Also, it depends on where you start.
If you start in "Desktop", you've got a long way to go...
[ ]Desktop <-From here
(-)-[ ]My computer
| (+)[ ]3.5" Floppy (A:)
| (-)[ ]Win98 (C:)
| | (+)[ ]emacs
| | (+)[ ]Epusbrv
| | | [ ]httpd
| | (+)[ ]jdk1.2.2
| | (+)[ ]My Documents <-To Here
Quite a lot of arrow key playing, especially to open all the recursed
directories.
>Press F6 (not needed if used F4)
>Type "\My p" and then down arrow & enter, to get "my documents\my pictures"
>F3, *.jpg, , ctrl+A
>Shift+F10, send to, Floppy.
>You can also choose what pictures to copy based on the picture's thumbnail,
>too.
Are we using the same operating system here?
>There are two advantages to the GUI here, you don't need to remember the
>path here.
>Browsing the FS is much more friendly (and fast) using the GUI than the CLI.
>Second, you get to choose the pictures to copy based on their content,
>rather than on their name.
It should be assumed that you know what you want to copy in the first
place though.
>> Add to that waiting period for Windows Explorer to launch and you have
>> just taken quit a bit longer to do something in a GUI.
>Explorer is very fast in loading, barely more than it takes to bring CMD.EXE
You must have a very fast machine then. Mine takes at least twice as
long. And if you were using a CLI, you wouldn't need to bring up
CMD.exe
>> Also, in Windows
>> the copying process must finish before you can continue work in Windows
>> Explorer, where as in *nix you can continue work while the copying is
>> done in the background. I personally find this the biggest irritation
>> when I work on M$ platforms.
>AFAIK, this problem attacks Win95 (and other 9x?) only.
>I certainly have no problem doing other stuff on Win2K while writing to
>floppy.
Yes, but the average user won't be using 2K.
>> LASTLY, I think the M$ GUI problems is not bound to M$ allone - Linux,
>> MAC and other GUI systems (or systems that can use GUI's) will have
>> similar problems. I think it's time we rethink this whole thing. Yes,
>> there are instances where I like a GUI, for example Graphic Design. But
>> for many applications, the command line will remain KING.
>
>Yes, server applications.
>And that is because server application doesn't *need* UI.
>What about desktops? Can you really claim that there are many desktop
>applications where the CLI is a vialable competitor?
My machine isn't a server, but I use the CLI all the time. It's so
much easier (when you know what you're doing. The average user will be
stopped dead in their tracks if they try to use a CLI)
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:30 +0100
On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:13:46 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>> There are two advantages to the GUI here, you don't need to remember the
>> path here.
>
>But it does help... Using CLI, you tend to be more orginised because you
>know you have to remember wheres what. In GUI you tend to get laisy.
>This is of course purely my personal experience. It will differ among
>users.
It differs with me. My entire filesystem is a complete MESS.
>> AFAIK, this problem attacks Win95 (and other 9x?) only.
>> I certainly have no problem doing other stuff on Win2K while writing to
>> floppy.
>
>Perhaps it's my ancient box at work then - PII 300 with 64MB RAM running
>NT4 WS. Explorer is useless until the coping finishes.
Ancient? My machine is like half as good as that.
>> Yes, server applications.
>> And that is because server application doesn't *need* UI.
>> What about desktops? Can you really claim that there are many desktop
>> applications where the CLI is a vialable competitor?
>
>Programming environments (rhide), text editors (emacs, pico etc), FTP
>clients, IRC clients, Telnet, File Management (mc in Linux?), SSH,
I've yet to see a decent CLI IRC client, or a file manager. Windows
Explorer is king of file management.
>GUI superior apps for me include Graphic Design tools (I like
>PaintShopPro on my Windows box!), Web design (I personally hate
>designing web pages in a text editor - I saved hundreds of hours of
>design time when I switched to FrontPage, although many people will
>disagree with me. I personally think that although FrontPage is not the
>best app there is, it is in my books one of the better apps to come from
>M$).
Vi is the only program you need to design web sites.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RIP the Linux desktop
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:33 +0100
On 3 Jun 2001 15:09:39 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
([EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)) wrote:
>drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>By defintion. Read it.
>
>> Sorry, but where I come from, you're innocent until proven guilty.
>
>Really? You come from Holland?
No, but from the description above, you can only round it down to
every civilised developed country. Although I wouldn't mind living in
holland...
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A Newbie Linux User Asks:
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:33 +0100
On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 16:11:44 +0100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>>Firstly, you were the one who mentioned the Nazis for absoloutely no
>>>reason, so I assumed you were going after Goodwin's misinterpreted law.
>>>Are you calling yourself a cunt?
>>
>> I didn't invoke any laws. I didn't realise mentioning the Nazis was not
>> allowed on this newsgroup.
>
>I was guessing at your meaning, since I had no idea what you were talking
>about.
I was saying that under the Nazis, Kulkis wouldn't be able to get away
with disrupting the newsgroup.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:35 +0100
On 3 Jun 2001 15:11:44 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
([EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)) wrote:
>drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>"The Newsreader FORTE AGENT has a "killfile" capability.
>>>You can actually select *to read* the writing of
>>>certain authors, and automatically screen out the rest.
>>>Also, you may read all but certain writers."
>> But I don't want to filter out certain authors, as I want to read many
>> of their posts in other threads. My newsreader has no facility to
>> filter out certain authors only in certain threads.
>Yes it does, you just never read the instructions. Just for hoots and
>giggles, I grabbed the payfor version of Agent, cracked it with a handy
>utility I found near astalavista.box.sk, and figured out how to do it
>in almost, but not quite 5 minutes.
>
>It is a little tricky, granted. But its entirely possible, and all you
>need to get it to work is one functioning braincell.
It is not possible.
>>>You really are an idiot. Thank god you arent going to attempt to
>>>use linux, it would probably kill you.
>
>> I already am using linux, so fuck you.
>
>Not very well, apparently. Please stop using it at once. You're
>making the rest of us look bad.
It's not my fault it doesn't even have any facilities for setting up
printers. Linux will never catch up with Windows at this rate. All you
have to do in Windows is open Control Panel and give it the drivers
disk. On Linux, you....... what? Nothing there for installing
printers. Or soundcards. And everytime you download something, you
have to download about 300 dependencies, all of which depend on
another 600 packages and so on... And dpkg doesn't even tell you which
packages you need, it just spews out countless pages of shite.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:36 +0100
On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:21:13 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> But I don't want to filter out certain authors, as I want to read many
>> of their posts in other threads. My newsreader has no facility to
>> filter out certain authors only in certain threads.
>Does Agent have some rule base system?
>
>On OE, you can do this:
>
>Apply this rule after the message arrives
>
>Where the From line contains 'some author'
>
>and Where the Subject line contains 'Some thread name'
>
>Delete it
>
>Which gives you the control that you want.
No such thing on Agent. You can specify author or subject. Not both.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:38 +0100
On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 18:02:31 +0100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>>Plus Ed is a knowledgable guy, I think its silly to piss him off.
>>>
>>>Up to you tho, usenet is still a free medium.
>>
>> Which is one of its major faults. There should be some way that I can
>> moderate this newsgroup.
>Well, feel free to create a comp.os.linux.advocacy.moderated group, but
>with opiniois such as yours, don't expect anyone to read it if you're
>doing the moderating.
I'm after moderating this newsgroup.
>Besides, why should you have more of a right than anyone else to moderate
>the group?
Shut up fool, or I'll moderate out all your posts when I become
moderator.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:39 +0100
On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 18:03:11 +0100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "drsquare"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>You're a new poster to COLA, Drsquare, why not just get a news
>>>>
>>>> New poster? I've been posting here for years.
>>>I have NEVER seen you before the last few weeks. You must either post
>>>very infrequently, or you have changed your name ?
>>
>> I have changed my name.
>
>Are you rotten186?
Nope.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the
dust!
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:41 +0100
On 4 Jun 2001 03:11:54 +1200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Patrick Ford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>drsquare wrote:
>> Because it's a words that I've never heard ANYONE use EVER.
>
>Oh how very unfortunate for you. Where have you spent your life? Have you
>been in a monastry?
Would you be offended if I had?
>Oh all right, I will tell you. .
>
>
>"Taking the piss" means pulling your leg, pulling your tit,
>poking fun, taking the mickey out of you, teasing you, making a joke of
>you.
>
>It's very English, but is also used in Australia and New Zealand, and
>probably Canada. IOW, most of the English-speaking world.
>
>"Seppo" means American. It is strictly a Strine word, but is also known
>and used to a minor extent in New Zealand. It was formulated from modified
>Cockney rhyming slang with Ocker compulsive abbreviations (abbro) imposed
>on it in what is now unique Strine rhyming slang, quite different from
>the Cockney "Halligan's goat", "plates o' meat" style.
>
>"WTF?", a Seppo abbreviation for "What the fuck?"
>"Taking the piss" has been common since about the mid 1960s "Seppos" since
>the mid '80s and WTF for about fifteen years, and is really used only in
>on-line text based communication.
I can imagine what you happen if you spurted out "double-yew tee eff?"
suring a conversation.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Very interesting cracker article, and XP warning.
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:42 +0100
On 3 Jun 2001 15:16:13 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>IPv6 addreses both problems and also offers a reasonable migration
>path for existing IPv4 infrastructure.
Isn't it like 128 bit addresses? That's like
3.4028236692093846346337460743177e+38 addresses.
>We need to begin moving to it.
>
>The migration will not happen instantaneously nor will it be
>pain-free. It needs to begin soon, before worldwide use of the
>Internet begins to explode (it's not saturated even in the
>industrialized world, which holds only a minority of the world's
>population and potential Internet users). Otherwise it will be even
>more painful.
Yeah, but come on, all those scabs living in 3rd world places are
hardly going to be able to afford to get on the internet are they?
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does Linux need for the desktop?
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:12:44 +0100
On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 16:07:21 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>What does Linux need for the desktop?
>
>Some users would be nice :)
And a non-shit GUI. You need to go delving into configuration files
just to stop it scrolling around everywhere when you move the mouse to
the side of the screen.
------------------------------
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