Linux-Advocacy Digest #836, Volume #31 Tue, 30 Jan 01 02:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4 (Charlie Ebert)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else ("Tony Neville")
Re: Progeny Debian... (John Travis)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - Christianity... (Charlie Ebert)
Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux! ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Sound a networks ("Tom Wilson")
Re: rh 6.2 and wu-ftp 2.6.0-14 ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux headache ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here! (Salvador Peralta)
Re: Investicije 2001 (Damijan Sencar)
Re: Desktop MTTF, Linux, lets get some numbers. (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Re: Linux headache (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Re: M$ websites down - Rediculous nonsense!!! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Desktop MTTF, Linux, lets get some numbers. (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Who was saying Crays don't run Linux? ("Flacco")
Re: ... is a fucking idiot! (Salvador Peralta)
Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here! ("Flacco")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:37:47 GMT
In article <3a764a87$0$73910$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jan Johanson wrote:
<SNIP>
Ah...
I think we have to get back to the base cost of Whistler
again darling. $530 for the full install then...
Wonder if a blind man's SSN would pay for the full
install..
Or, maybe he could just use Linux.
Humm..
Will Microsoft be giving out free copies of their OS
to all the blind and deaf people this year?
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Tony Neville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:49:17 +1300
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 04:14:35 -0500, Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >. wrote:
> >
> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Harlan Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <94snje$ekf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>>> Wasnt there something about a government BY the people and FOR the
> >>>> people written down somewhere?
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>
> >>
> >>> The US is a republic not a democracy. Kindly read the Federalist Papers
> >>> for the rationale behind not trusting the populace. It has a government
> >>> of laws, and the laws in the state of Florida were fairly clear, and
> >>> the polling stations had signs giving instructions that voters should
> >>> make sure that their ballots were punched through and to remove hanging
> >>> chads. And if they double-punched, they could ask for new ballot papers.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ah, you dont have a very good understanding of what happened in florida.
> >>
> >> You're one of those insane federalists who believes that his government
> >> is incapable of doing any sort of wrong, arent you?
> >>
> >> I'll bet you believe in god too, dontcha?
> >>
> >> Thats very sweet.
> >>
> >
> >yeah <sarcasm> what a horrid idea to actually believe in God huh? <sarcasm>
> >
> >Considering the US was founded on Christian beliefs I find this normal
> >and hopeful that people might actually have a set of morals not based on
>
> No, the US was founded on Humanist beliefs. In the grand
> scheme of things, Christianity is just a historical footnote. You
> are gravely delluded.
Was the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness a sentiment to
be found in Humanism in those days? If so, Humanism then as NO
resemblance to Humanism today with its embracing of Marxist theory
swamped in political correctness in the form of muliculturalism, moral
relativism, deconstructionism, and social engineering, its vilification of
anything Western and its fawning praise of primitive tribal cultures,
its cynicism and nihilism. Humanism is brain dead.
But I think you're right about America not being founded on Christian
principles. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for man *on
earth* rather than in some supernatural never-never land, has never
been the cry of Christianity.
Cheers,
Tony.
------------------------------
From: John Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Progeny Debian...
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:26:29 GMT
And on Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:41:21 GMT, "Kyle Jacobs"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spoke unto us:
>PROGENY DEBIAN IS OUT!
>
>PROGENY DEBIAN IS OUT!
>
>PROGENY DEBIAN IS OUT!
>
>It's going to be Debian, with logical enhancements!
Well, the beta2 images were released on the 18th if that is what you are
referring to (I am a member of the test group). As for Debian with
"logical enhancements" Storm was one of the (if not the) best commercial
distros I have ever used. It's too bad about Stormix. They came into a
saturated market and never got enough of a foothold. Sometimes timing is
more important than quality I suppose... Hopefully Progeny will fill
their shoes and meet a kinder fate.
jt
________________________________________
Alternative Computing Solutions...
Debian GNU/Linux http://www.debian.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - Christianity...
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:42:40 GMT
In article <955k14$35j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tony Neville wrote:
>
>Was the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness a sentiment to
>be found in Humanism in those days? If so, Humanism then as NO
>resemblance to Humanism today with its embracing of Marxist theory
>swamped in political correctness in the form of muliculturalism, moral
>relativism, deconstructionism, and social engineering, its vilification of
>anything Western and its fawning praise of primitive tribal cultures,
>its cynicism and nihilism. Humanism is brain dead.
>
>But I think you're right about America not being founded on Christian
>principles. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for man *on
>earth* rather than in some supernatural never-never land, has never
>been the cry of Christianity.
>
>Cheers,
> Tony.
>
>
>
And you can bet those bastards run Windows also.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux!
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:54:00 -0600
"Charles Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > You aren't listening. Since the failure occured a great deal of time
after
> > the change was made, it was difficult to connect the failure with that
> > specific change. It took them a great deal of time to track down
exactly
> > where the problem was. Once they knew where it was, solving it was
quite
> > easy.
> So how often do they have to make changes to their software? How many
> changes had to be backed out to get the working configuration back? What
> exactly was the change that caused the problem? If it wasn't the fault
> of MS software, why isn't the change published with a "DON'T DO THIS"
> warning?
One more time. It was a router configuration problem with the router
(probably a CISCO). MS didn't notice the problem internally because the
router was only failing to route incoming packets, and local packets were
routing just fine.
A site as big and busy as MS is has hundreds or thousands of changes done to
it daily. Figuring out a problem requires testing an awful lot of things
before even narrowing it down to a specific piece of hardware, and a
specific configuration. You don't know if it's a hardware failure, a
configuraiton failure, a NAP failure, etc..
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sound a networks
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:47:16 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Npld6.25179$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> J Sloan wrote:
>
> > It does play an old, poor quality voice recording IIRC.
>
> No kidding.
>
> > There would be a midi keyboard sample in the next step.
>
> Curious, I never heard this.
>
> > That dlink card is probably not supported -
>
> Ah but it is.
I use the exact same card and yes, it is supported and works quite
well...Surprising when you consider how cheap the things are.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: rh 6.2 and wu-ftp 2.6.0-14
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:54:01 GMT
"Chad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Coid6.39598$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I have rh 6.2 and recently installed package wu-ftpd-2.6.0-14.6x. My
> security team says, "Version 2.6.0 still contains security exposures".
They
> are suggesting to install wu 2.6.1, but I would rather just stick with
the
> rh rpms. Can someone shed some light on this?
The only light that needs shed is that your security guys are right. Listen
to them.
Keep that package installed and you can expect the box to be rooted in no
time. Give me the URL to it and I'll be happy to show you. Its' a commonly
known weakpoint.
PS: Red Hat doesn't maintain that package. Its' an add on included with
your distro.
PSS: Listen to your security team!
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:08:55 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > By the way, all kidding aside, asking the end user to do bizarre
things
> > like recompile the kernel, is one of many, many reasons why Linux
> > is not appropriate for the end user. It reflects fundamental design
> > flaws in Linux that need to be overcome before the system can
> > compete with more technically advanced systems like Windows.
>
> All of this must be why UNIX is the STANDARD desktop for every
> automotive designer in the world...all the way from the manufacturers
> (GM, FORD, BMW, VW, TOYOTA, ROLLS ROYCE, etc.) all the way down to the
> most insignificant tier-3 parts supplier.
NOT. I've spent a great deal of time in detroit at both Ford and GM. While
Unix is definately prevelant, it is *NOT* the standard desktop at either
company, in fact they have a great deal of investment into Windows. Now,
when you say "designer", if you meant the engineers only, then you're still
wrong, since SolidWorks and similar packages are used primarily on NT in
those companies.
EDS is still primarily in charge of IT at GM, and Unix is not the standard
there.
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here!
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:05:50 -0800
David Steinberg wrote:
> --
> David Steinberg -o)
> Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
^^^^^
Nice ascii
is it GPL'd?
8^)
--
Salvador Peralta
"To close down windows, i.e. to STOP windows,
the first thing you do is click the START button."
- windows support
------------------------------
From: Damijan Sencar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Investicije 2001
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:18:10 +0100
ooooopppppssss!!!!
Damijan Sencar wrote:
>
>
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Desktop MTTF, Linux, lets get some numbers.
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:18:24 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mlw wrote:
>
> OK, the latest FUD tactic of the winvocates is to say that Linux is
> unstable with a GUI.
> Lets get some numbers together about desktops.
>
> Take the number of hours, total not just current uptime, that your system
> has been running, and divide by the number of crashes you've had. Lets be
> accurate and generous, an X crash that can only be fixed using telnet or
> ssh, should be counted as a crash.
>
>
> Send this information to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Each mail should have these lines:
>
> machine: name
> hours: 4000
> crashes: 0
>
> Machine, followed by hours, followed by crashes. Each one on its own line,
> and each with a number following a colon after the word. You may have more
> than one machine per document. Only one mail (multiple machines) per email
> origin will be counted.
>
> I will write a quick program to calculate.
>
> I will try to reduce spam data by:
> email from Windows machine will be rejected.
> questionably high crash numbers will be double checked.
> unreasonably small crash numbers will be double checked.
>
>
> If I get a usable response, I will post these numbers periodically.
>
>
I have one crash per week with KDE2 Beta; no data loss, nothing to repair.
If I could not live with that, I would use one of the fvwm's or something
like that. At school (41 years old and still learning), I have one crash
per week of NT4 SP6 which means the whole system has to be rebooted and a
few weekly crashes of one of the famous, reliable and
incredibly-large-monster-files-creating M$Office-Applications. I think you
should count these crashes too; M$Office is an application separate from
the system as i.e. KDE is an application.
Cheers
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Using SuSE 5.3 and 7.0
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:24:25 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andy Walker wrote:
>
snip
>
> Bye the way, has anyone who isn't a beardy geek (no insult intended)
> actually successfully re-compiled their kernel and got exactly the result
> they were looking for ???
>
>
Yes. But not with my first attempt....... .
Cheers
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Using SuSE 5.3 and 7.0
P.S. I have a beard but I am not a geek
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: M$ websites down - Rediculous nonsense!!!
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:23:47 GMT
In article <Czsd6.335$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
Good evening! Welcome to another episode of "LOST CAUSE THEATER"
Tonight, we examine the comments of Erik Funkenbusch - Microsoft Expert.
>One more time. It was a router configuration problem with the router
>(probably a CISCO). MS didn't notice the problem internally because the
>router was only failing to route incoming packets, and local packets were
>routing just fine.
>
Um humm....
>A site as big and busy as MS is has hundreds or thousands of changes done to
>it daily. Figuring out a problem requires testing an awful lot of things
>before even narrowing it down to a specific piece of hardware, and a
>specific configuration. You don't know if it's a hardware failure, a
>configuraiton failure, a NAP failure, etc..
>
>
Yes. Microsoft's web site was down for all that time and nobody
noticed.
#1. Microsoft marketing is the sharpest in the computer industry.
Thousands of people called Microsoft and told them about this
problem. They were aware of this problem in the first 10
minutes of it happening.
#2. It is a solid testimoney of the inadequacies of a Microsoft
operating system when it takes them all that time to track
down a simple problem.
We've heard of their excellent security when their source
code was stolen from Corporate HQ by people unknown in Asia.
Now we hear about how easy it is to FIX a problem in a
"DATA CENTER" corporate HQ bullshit operation when running
Microsoft.
If your running Linux, you can perform netstat or run NTOP
and let it collect information about what's seen on the
network and analyze the problem. Programs like NTOP
are *NECESSARY* tools if you want to run a modern network
and minimize downtime. Microsoft has nothing like this
in their arsenal.
This leads to technicians litterally unplugging cables to
find problems.
This proves once again that Microsoft **IS NOT THE WAY**
for *YOUR* business to go if it relies on MISSION CRITICAL
internet business connections!
How PLAIN can we make it here! This is MICROSOFT.COM again!
**THEY** are *SUPPOSED* to be the *EXPERTS* on Windows
and "dATA cENTER"....
Microsoft "DATA CENTER". Hey joey! Look what Mom and Dad
bought me for my birthday! It's the NEW Microsoft DATA CENTER!
What a rediculous marketing campaign.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Desktop MTTF, Linux, lets get some numbers.
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:25:50 GMT
In article <955lv6$asd$06$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ralph Miguel Hansen wrote:
>mlw wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, the latest FUD tactic of the winvocates is to say that Linux is
>> unstable with a GUI.
>> Lets get some numbers together about desktops.
>>
>> Take the number of hours, total not just current uptime, that your system
>> has been running, and divide by the number of crashes you've had. Lets be
>> accurate and generous, an X crash that can only be fixed using telnet or
>> ssh, should be counted as a crash.
>>
>>
>> Send this information to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Each mail should have these lines:
>>
>> machine: name
>> hours: 4000
>> crashes: 0
>>
>> Machine, followed by hours, followed by crashes. Each one on its own line,
>> and each with a number following a colon after the word. You may have more
>> than one machine per document. Only one mail (multiple machines) per email
>> origin will be counted.
>>
>> I will write a quick program to calculate.
>>
>> I will try to reduce spam data by:
>> email from Windows machine will be rejected.
>> questionably high crash numbers will be double checked.
>> unreasonably small crash numbers will be double checked.
>>
>>
>> If I get a usable response, I will post these numbers periodically.
>>
>>
>I have one crash per week with KDE2 Beta; no data loss, nothing to repair.
>If I could not live with that, I would use one of the fvwm's or something
>like that. At school (41 years old and still learning), I have one crash
>per week of NT4 SP6 which means the whole system has to be rebooted and a
>few weekly crashes of one of the famous, reliable and
>incredibly-large-monster-files-creating M$Office-Applications. I think you
>should count these crashes too; M$Office is an application separate from
>the system as i.e. KDE is an application.
>
>Cheers
>
>Ralph Miguel Hansen
>Using SuSE 5.3 and 7.0
>
>
KDE is a desktop and they have a *RELEASE* of KDE 2.0 so you
don't have to run your beta anymore.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Flacco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who was saying Crays don't run Linux?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:18:30 -0500
> BioNumerik Pharmaceuticals will use the Cray SV1 to
> "tackle even larger quantum chemistry problems critical
> for creating new cancerfighting drugs".
If Linux finds a cure for cancer, do you think the Winvocates will at last
cry Uncle?
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ... is a fucking idiot!
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:41:29 -0800
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> >I disagree. I was glad to know that the M$ spinsters are cranking up
> >their FUD in response to the challenge of linux. I would never go to
> >the site myself, so I am always thankful for links that deal with their
> >spin on linux.
> >
>
> You would *never* go to the site yourself...
Not unless someone posted a link in this advocacy group or to get
pricing information to show why TCO sucks for their products.
> It enrages me that anybody would give anything put there merit.
You got enraged because you misinterpreted Adam's post. Badly.
------------------------------
From: "Flacco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here!
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:25:55 -0500
> >> Here's the link:
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/serverappliance/kempin.asp
A hilarious read - thanks.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:38:45 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <3a764830$0$73924$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jan Johanson wrote:
> >
> >"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:954hdm$bvj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Conrad Rutherford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> Chad Myers wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > The obvious question is, why isn't Linux on the TPC?
> >> >>
> >> >> Because no distributions have shipped with the 2.4 kernel yet?
> >>
> >> > You place a lot on this unproven new release... we'll see... but then
> >> > there'll be Whistler...
> >>
> >> Unproven? Moron, 2.4 has been in very intense testing for almost a
> >> year. But you wouldnt know that, seeing as how you wouldnt know linux
> >> itself if it was sucking on your bollocks.
> >
> >Are you that stupid that you do not acknowledge that "proven" has nothing to
> >do with "tested"
> >I'm sure they tested "Dikatana a LOT" but proving it was another story.
> >I'm sure the pentium IV tested, but I wouldn't save it's proven very well...
> >
> >>
> >> >> Excellent point - If that's the case, it's just a matter of time.
> >>
> >> > Yea, we'll see...
> >>
> >> Wheres that version of datacenter that can handle 64 processors again
> >> exactly? Can I create a folder called "con" on ITS desktop?
> >
> >Datacenter is available today. No, you cannot. So?
> >
>
> You know the *RACE* to build the largest Microsoft DATACENTER
> supercomputer is so tuff....
>
> Wonder why more scientists don't choose Microsoft DATACENTER!!!
>
> Just the term DATACENTER reminds me of those lego commericals!
> Here's MONSTER TRUCK!!!
>
Standard MS marketing tactic: Name their product after a term which
is already commonly in use.
So that, when you speak of (your company's) Datacenter, clueless
Non-tech managers will assume that you are talking about MS-DATACENTER,
and, in the typical managerial-envy-response, will demand that THEIR
department get an DATAKLUGER also.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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