Linux-Advocacy Digest #867, Volume #31 Wed, 31 Jan 01 12:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux headache (Hans Adams)
The nightmare that the current Open Source king (Linux) has bestowed upon us ("al")
Re: Kernel upgrade - not bad at all (chrisv)
Re: XFS 1.0 is getting close! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Sound a networks ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Storm Linux & Applixware ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The nightmare that the current Open Source king (Linux) has bestowed upon us (.)
Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Storm Linux & Applixware (.)
Re: Yum! A new laptop screen, i thinks ill fry it! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy! (.)
Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hans Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:14:08 +0100
David Steinberg wrote:
>
> You mention that there are better-designed, more modular kernels out
> there. Please explain how they would allow him to do any of these things
> without recompiling. More to the point, please explain how such
> activities would be possible at all with a kernel for which no source code
> is available.
>
Just speaking for myself, not any --- even honest --- company.
Dear David,
more modern concepts have been thought and implemented.
Nearly almost they rely on a micro kernel. This approach allows you to
start and stop services, includig such dealing with hardware, without
rebooting or even touching kernel address space.
Microsoft did so to implement NT, though they have to reboot to
integrate services into the kernel.
Sun Micro Systems bought Chorus, France, to get hands onto a really
distributed, microkernel-based OS, Chorus on MIX.
Best of all, this appraoch is available on Linux. Apple used it to build
MK-Linux. A Linux kernel 2.0.3x based on L4 has been proposed and
implemented by Gernot Heisser et. al. .
Linux Torvald has not yet allowed to incorporate this modern approach
into the main streammof Linux development, though it is getting really
urgent meanwhile....
> --
> David Steinberg -o)
> Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
Indeed, you should proceed studying... best, Hans Adams
------------------------------
From: "al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: The nightmare that the current Open Source king (Linux) has bestowed upon us
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:15:56 -0500
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God, save us from an Open Source world the proponents of which are =
really nothing more than people who are too cheap to actually pay for a =
product that they receive benefit from.=20
Why don't you all just go bootleg yourself into happiness and leave the =
rest of us alone.=20
We are already starting to experience the nightmare that the current =
Open Source king (Linux) has bestowed upon us in the form of...=20
1. Small business buying into some form of Linux based upon a single =
employees experience and abilities (or purported abilities) and then =
everything falling apart when that person leaves the company - guess =
what, no docs, no standards, no references, no nothing! First step to =
recovery - find someone else to completely rebuild everything into their =
"vision" of what their "version" of Linux should be OR buy back into the =
industry standard world of Windows!=20
Bottom line - tens of thousands of dollars literally wasted in manhours =
just to save a few dollars on the operating system(s).=20
Bottom line - tens of thousands of dollars wasted in re-converting back =
into the industry standard world just to save a few dollars on the =
operrating system(s).=20
bottom line - all those who can' afford to re-convert back to the =
industry standard find themselves relying more and more on the old pen =
and paper business model since their "FREE" operating systems don't =
allow them to run the applications compatible with their vendors and =
customers....=20
bottom line - many now find themsleves starting down that slippery slope =
to financial ruin as they can no longer keep up with the competition - =
everyone is too busy trying to keep their computers running to actually =
get any work done...=20
And we still haven't seen the forthcoming problems with the virus issue =
in an "open source" environment - Hmm, who is going to write the =
antivirus code to deal with that virus that only effects a few =
compilations of the "open" operating system?=20
Oh, and did anyone ever tell Mr. small business manager that he has to =
debug his own software? Well, since open source software is, well, open, =
who is going to deal with all the issues, problems and concerns that =
develop during=20
"compilation"? Hmm, so now we have Mr. Small Business person running his =
own little "beta" program.... Hmmm, doesn't sound very profitable to =
me.....=20
But then, as with most things, time will tell.=20
Personally I find it interesting that so many companies actually thoght =
they could make money selling something that was already available to =
everyone "free of charge".... but then, many of those companies had =
little trouble finding suckers... er, I mean, Investors....=20
So I guess anything is possible in this world, perhaps I may even find =
someone who will buy that oceanfront Property in Arizona among "Open =
Source" proponents. Should be right up their alley.....
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>God, save us from an Open Source world =
the=20
proponents of which are really nothing more than people who are too =
cheap to=20
actually pay for a product that they receive benefit from. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why don't you all just go bootleg =
yourself into=20
happiness and leave the rest of us alone. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>We are already starting to experience the nightmare that the =
current=20
Open Source king (Linux) has bestowed upon us in the form of... </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>1. Small business buying into some form of Linux based upon a =
single=20
employees experience and abilities (or purported abilities) and then =
everything=20
falling apart when that person leaves the company - guess what, no docs, =
no=20
standards, no references, no nothing! First step to recovery - find =
someone else=20
to completely rebuild everything into their "vision" of what their =
"version" of=20
Linux should be OR buy back into the industry standard world of Windows! =
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bottom line - tens of thousands of dollars literally wasted in =
manhours=20
just to save a few dollars on the operating system(s). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bottom line - tens of thousands of dollars wasted in =
re-converting back=20
into the industry standard world just to save a few dollars on the =
operrating=20
system(s). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>bottom line - all those who can' afford to re-convert back to =
the=20
industry standard find themselves relying more and more on the old pen =
and paper=20
business model since their "FREE" operating systems don't allow them to =
run the=20
applications compatible with their vendors and customers.... </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>bottom line - many now find themsleves starting down that =
slippery=20
slope to financial ruin as they can no longer keep up with the =
competition -=20
everyone is too busy trying to keep their computers running to actually =
get any=20
work done... </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And we still haven't seen the forthcoming problems with the virus =
issue in=20
an "open source" environment - Hmm, who is going to write the antivirus =
code to=20
deal with that virus that only effects a few compilations of the "open"=20
operating system? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Oh, and did anyone ever tell Mr. small business manager that he =
has to=20
debug his own software? Well, since open source software is, well, open, =
who is=20
going to deal with all the issues, problems and concerns that develop =
during=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"compilation"? Hmm, so now we have Mr. Small Business person =
running his=20
own little "beta" program.... Hmmm, doesn't sound very profitable to =
me.....=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>But then, as with most things, time will tell. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Personally I find it interesting that so many companies =
actually thoght=20
they could make money selling something that was already available to =
everyone=20
"free of charge".... but then, many of those companies had little =
trouble=20
finding suckers... er, I mean, Investors.... </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>So I guess anything is possible in this world, perhaps I may =
even find=20
someone who will buy that oceanfront Property in Arizona among "Open =
Source"=20
proponents. Should be right up their alley.....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
From: chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Kernel upgrade - not bad at all
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:17:50 GMT
Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>yeah and i'm sure if she ever has to install Windows from scratch on a
>bare hard drive she will have that same feeling. (remember she would
>need a bootdisk with a cdrom driver and mscdex.exe on it,along with
>autoexec.bat and config.sys, and possibly format.com and fdisk)
Many newer PC's will boot off the CDROM, making this much easier.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: XFS 1.0 is getting close!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:38:04 GMT
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:32:12 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>No, the xfs beta is not meant for non-technical end users
>such as flatfish - it was meant for techies, not whiners.
Sounds like a perfect match for Linux.
>We'll let you know when it's included in a shrink wrapped
>distribution.
Chances are it won't install properly then either.
>jjs
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here!
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:33:14 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[-snip-]
> The .NET initiative is ActiveX, the next generation, which, in turn,
> is DCOM, which is COM/OLE... suffice to say that Microsoft has been
> trying to do this for quite some time now and they still haven't
> managed to do more than embed a chart into Excel, a data control in
> Word or an IE control as a help system.
But they have enabled embedding a virus in an e-mail. Who would dispute
the utility of such an *innovation* as that?
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Sound a networks
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:40:24 GMT
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:52:10 GMT, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I've always gone for custom - but I never seem to get the same results
>twice.
>
>In "Server saga", I tried three times to install on my old machine with
>three different results. At work, it went just fine.
>
>Is there a distribution that installs things correctly without too much
>hassle? Or should I go back to Slackware 8)?
Exactly the same story here.
Try selecting expert with no hardware detection.
Now watch the bottom of the screen when you hit the enter key.
It starts detecting the mouse and continues on detecting the rest of
the hardware from there.
The install program gives different results on the same exact machine
each time I install it with the same options.
It is broken.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Storm Linux & Applixware
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:42:29 GMT
On 31 Jan 2001 04:50:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
> They're in the business of making
>things work very well, and I have high expectations.
I'll let them know they can count on your support.
I'm sure they are interested.
>
>
>
>-----.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: The nightmare that the current Open Source king (Linux) has bestowed upon
us
Date: 31 Jan 2001 16:45:11 GMT
al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> God, save us from an Open Source world the proponents of which are really nothing
>more than people who are too cheap to actually pay for a product that they receive
>benefit from.
> Why don't you all just go bootleg yourself into happiness and leave the rest of us
>alone.
> We are already starting to experience the nightmare that the current Open Source
>king (Linux) has bestowed upon us in the form of...
> 1. Small business buying into some form of Linux based upon a single employees
>experience and abilities (or purported abilities) and then everything falling apart
>when that person leaves the company - guess what, no docs, no standards, no
>references, no nothing! First step to recovery - find someone else to completely
>rebuild everything into their "vision" of what their "version" of Linux should be OR
>buy back into the industry standard world of Windows!
> Bottom line - tens of thousands of dollars literally wasted in manhours just to save
>a few dollars on the operating system(s).
> Bottom line - tens of thousands of dollars wasted in re-converting back into the
>industry standard world just to save a few dollars on the operrating system(s).
> bottom line - all those who can' afford to re-convert back to the industry standard
>find themselves relying more and more on the old pen and paper business model since
>their "FREE" operating systems don't allow them to run the applications compatible
>with their vendors and customers....
> bottom line - many now find themsleves starting down that slippery slope to
>financial ruin as they can no longer keep up with the competition - everyone is too
>busy trying to keep their computers running to actually get any work done...
> And we still haven't seen the forthcoming problems with the virus issue in an "open
>source" environment - Hmm, who is going to write the antivirus code to deal with that
>virus that only effects a few compilations of the "open" operating system?
> Oh, and did anyone ever tell Mr. small business manager that he has to debug his own
>software? Well, since open source software is, well, open, who is going to deal with
>all the issues, problems and concerns that develop during
> "compilation"? Hmm, so now we have Mr. Small Business person running his own little
>"beta" program.... Hmmm, doesn't sound very profitable to me.....
> But then, as with most things, time will tell.
> Personally I find it interesting that so many companies actually thoght they could
>make money selling something that was already available to everyone "free of
>charge".... but then, many of those companies had little trouble finding suckers...
>er, I mean, Investors....
> So I guess anything is possible in this world, perhaps I may even find someone who
>will buy that oceanfront Property in Arizona among "Open Source" proponents. Should
>be right up their alley.....
Bottom line:
Linux is capable of line-wrapping.
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:46:04 GMT
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:41:27 GMT, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm trying to remember which of KWord and AbiWord was the one that
>either had redraw problems or crashed a lot.
It's both of them.
>And about 50% of the pages I visit don't work too well with it.
Pages with certificates don't work at all.
>I see, you like your applications to have redraw problems or crash do you?
Why not?
They put up with unstable gui's so why not applications to match?
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:46:46 GMT
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:42:59 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
> My hub has worked just fine in Linux from the very first
> time I tried it. No futzing or finaegle was required. This
> is even with year old dev kernels, nevermind Mandrake.
In your dreamworld.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Storm Linux & Applixware
Date: 31 Jan 2001 16:46:16 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 31 Jan 2001 04:50:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>> They're in the business of making
>>things work very well, and I have high expectations.
> I'll let them know they can count on your support.
> I'm sure they are interested.
Oh im sorry, you almost passed for someone who had some experience
with high-end IBM hardware.
But then I saw that it was you.
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Yum! A new laptop screen, i thinks ill fry it!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:57:05 GMT
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:21 GMT, meow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well this is just great
>I havent even had my Sony Vaio a week and the screens fucked
>I installed Mandrake 7.2 and when asked to choose a monitor choosse lcd
>that can do 1024x768 which worked fine initially but after a reboot it
>trashed the screen which is now permament
>Fortunately its new and under warranty so ill get a new machine from
>them.
>This isnt the first time this has happened to me. Linux also fucked up a
>monitor i had a few years back too.
>THIS SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE. THERE IS NO REASON THIS CANT BE CODED SO
>THAT THE USER CAN ONLY CHOOSE OPTIONS THAT HIS MONITOR SUPPORTS.
>iTS EXTREMELY BAD PROGRAMMING THAT IT ALLOWS THEM TO SCREW UP THERE
>MACHINE SO VERY EASILY.
>Im a very experienced computer user and a program of 15 years so im not
>some hopeless newbie that can barely switch on there machine.
>
>mr angry
Welcome to Linux.
You have been warned.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy!
Date: 31 Jan 2001 16:57:36 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:42:59 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>> My hub has worked just fine in Linux from the very first
>> time I tried it. No futzing or finaegle was required. This
>> is even with year old dev kernels, nevermind Mandrake.
Mine works too--just fine.
> In your dreamworld.
Claire, *everyone* disagrees with you and thinks you're a moron.
You're the only one who doesnt.
What does this tell you?
(hint: scientific method; occam's razor)
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:52:25 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Flacco,
>
> > > This is not a prediction: Microsoft desperately wants student
mindshare
> > > and to engender a feeling of community.
> >
> > Do you think it will work?
>
> Did you see one of the replies?:
>
> "Participants will get FREE FULL VERSIONS of Windows 2000 Professional and
> Visual Studio 6.0 Professional on CD and we will help you install them.
> Pre-registration is required for the Installfest, so I know how many
copies
> to get."
>
> That might work ;-)
>
No. According to Doug Miller, Microsoft group product manager for
competitive strategies, "There really isn't much value in free."
I am being forced to agree with him on this instance.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
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