Linux-Advocacy Digest #881, Volume #31 Wed, 31 Jan 01 23:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: [MDLUG] humorous ("Matt Dee")
Re: You can't fry a modern monitor anymore. (Marada C. Shradrakaii)
Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here! (Mike Martinet)
Re: MS executives at LinuxWorld Expo ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: Linux is awful ("William D. Tallman")
Re: Wow, an actual survey (Linux dissatisfactions and wish-lists) ("Flacco")
Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft (Mike Martinet)
Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions? (Ed Allen)
Re: Linux headache (Charlie Ebert)
Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it (Chris
Ahlstrom)
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it (Chris
Ahlstrom)
Re: Wow, an actual survey (Linux dissatisfactions and wish-lists) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft
Date: 1 Feb 2001 03:14:19 GMT
Bennetts family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
:> For the intellectually challenged, the mere act of me posting this piece
:> doesn't mean I support Microsoft's stance.
: And just because I'm using OE doesn't mean I'm at all enjoying the
: experience.
:> I proposed that Microsoft might be running scared a few days ago. To
:> continue the analogy, I now think we're in supersonic territory :-)
: Yes, Microsoft is screaming in vain. It's patently obvious lack of
: confidence is going to kill it. Essentially they are saying "We are dead.
: Not even .Net can save us now.". It can only be a matter of weeks or months
: before sales die off. "If Microsoft isn't confident in itself, we sure can't
: be confident in Microsoft.", I can hear execs holding purse strings saying.
: We have almost won!
Don't underestimate the threat posed by .NET. It is seeking to fill
the void that has always existed between browsers on one hand, and
full-featured GUI applications on the other, and if it manages to do
so successfully, then the Mafia$oft monopoly we have today will seem
like the "good ole' days" compared to what will soon follow.
How do we avoid this fate? We have to fill the need M$ is trying to,
we have to do it for the mass market, and most importantly, we have to
do it BEFORE it does. Mafia$oft may continue to shoot itself in the
foot by continuing to practice its traditional arrogance, ignoring
quality, and failing to comprehend the importance of paradigm shifts
that are already happening. But we cannot count on that. After first
ignoring the Web, M$ then almost managed to turn it into a
proprietary, M$-only platform in just a couple of years simply by
sabotaging the then-dominant Web browser and middleware language.
Tools that will help us: Mozilla (not necessarily Netscape), GNOME,
KDE, OpenOffice, Java, and standards-compliant HTML, CSS, and XML.
Most important thing we need and don't yet have: a cross-platform and
cross-language standard for Web-based forms that are more complex and
featureful than what standard HTML can handle. And it has to work on
IE (obviously with the help of a plug-in, and this may be the most
difficult battle of all, since M$ can and does sabotage any piece of
software that lives on its platform at will). Otherwise a lot of
'Doze users will simply use .NET by default, and that is exactly what
we can't allow to happen unless we want M$ to gain a foothold in the
server market, from which it can then dictate "standards" and
eventually dominate not only the existing PC market, but the emerging
markets for every other conceivable Net-connected device that will
ever exist.
Joe
------------------------------
From: "Matt Dee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: [MDLUG] humorous
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:20:22 +1300
> Hehe the sad part (about re-installing windows every year) is that it's
> TRUE.
>
> My Win98 system at home was running like treacle. Amazing what a complete
> re-install will do.
Most of the gamers I know (i.e. folks who want top performance so they can
get insanely high frame rates when playing QIII) recommend every six months.
Works for me :-)
Oh, not forgetting the time I installed a new graphics card, which made the
system kinda unstable. Then I installed a new network card - mistake.
Whole system went nuts, took a(nother) reinstall with the new hardware in
place to get it to work properly.
Matt.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marada C. Shradrakaii)
Date: 01 Feb 2001 03:20:11 GMT
Subject: Re: You can't fry a modern monitor anymore.
>The built in control circuitry in modern video cards and monitors
>prevent over clocking/syncing the video.
>
Reminds me of something I saw in a shop a while back... a couple different
monitors, running the same video signal. The (desktop) LCD displayed a weird
"no horizontal hold" sort of display, with a "Out of Range" box, as it couldn't
handle the chosen configuration.
--
Marada Coeurfuege Shra'drakaii
Colony name not needed in address.
This post is No. 54 056 in a limited edition of 700 000 000. Certificate of
Authenticity attached.
------------------------------
From: Mike Martinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Myths -- What I'd call Part II is here!
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:34:51 -0700
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Considering that Gates has run Microsoft on a business model which
> resembles that of your typical organized crime syndicate, why does
> it surprise you that future actions of Microsoft will also be rather
> similar to how organized crime operates once it gains unchallenged
> control of an area.
>
> --
I'm not sure I understand... Is your mobster analogy that MS is
'shaking down' users? Forcing them to 'pay protection' for software?
I meant that it would be perversely neat-O if the company were to suffer
a severe backlash from users as the result of a Pay-to-Play policy and
single-CPU licensing.
I wasn't expressing 'surprise', but anticipation.
Does that make sense?
MjM
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS executives at LinuxWorld Expo
Date: 1 Feb 2001 03:31:59 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Is anybody here going to Linuxworld? Anybody have any idea if the MS
: execs are going to try to pull any sort of this FUD nonsense over there?
That FUD is for the consumption of nontechnical managers and
decisionmakers, not IT professionals.
I doubt that even Mafia$oft is arrogant enough to try to bring a vial
full of shit into a perfume shop, claim that it's perfume, that real
perfume is "just a fad created by the media," and try to sell the vial
full of shit to people who actually know the difference between shit
and perfume. Although I'd probably die laughing if they tried. :)
Joe
------------------------------
From: "William D. Tallman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 03:31:37 GMT
> The cool thing is that it is, what, $25 at Walmart?
Which may very well be one of those MacMillan rip-off distros with all the
buggy beta stuff.
They packaged pre-release versions just to hit Walmart's sales window, so
we're told.....
------------------------------
From: "Flacco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wow, an actual survey (Linux dissatisfactions and wish-lists)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:24:49 -0500
> The ability to type
>
> ./configure
> make
> make install
>
> does not constitute programming skill.
I agree with you, but how much programming skill is required to simply
attach this script to a button somewhere?
Why put off those who are uncomfortable with the command-line?
Do we want to *repel* converts on the desktop?
------------------------------
From: Mike Martinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:55:26 -0700
"Joseph T. Adams" wrote:
> Don't underestimate the threat posed by .NET. It is seeking to fill
> the void that has always existed between browsers on one hand, and
> full-featured GUI applications on the other, and if it manages to do
> so successfully, then the Mafia$oft monopoly we have today will seem
> like the "good ole' days" compared to what will soon follow.
>
> How do we avoid this fate?
<snip>
Hey. I think I've got it figured out. I'm positive that the strategy
behind .NET is that Microsoft will attempt to force people to pay for
software as they go (All pluses for MS; no more CD-burning,
shrinkwrapping, shipping, retailing) and enforce licensing on a hardware
(disk, CPU) basis. (see the posts in this NG under 'Linux Myths - What
I'd call Part II is here') People aren't going to buy it, no matter how
MS sugar-coats it. I honestly think that the legendary Redmond
arrogance will work against them. No one is going to subscribe to MS
for applications on a monthly basis like they do cable or their ISP.
I mean, you have to pay about 30 bucks a month for cable, and there are
always people who try to pirate service. So when those MS SW bills
start rolling in, people will be desperate for an alternative and,
lo-and-behold, it might be ugly, it might be difficult, but it works and
it's free and it's -
Linux!
(Fingers crossed)
(Thank God there's no love lost between Intel and MS. Otherwise the
scenario could include PC's that wouldn't run anything BUT MS! Blechh!)
MjM
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Subject: Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 04:00:01 GMT
In article <958af8$r7i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Flacco quoth:
>
>>
>> MS, in its frenzy to control everything computing-related, will
>> undoubtedly start co-opting different elements of open-source without
>> actually going open-source.
>
>Well for starters, they'll try to co-opt the name. eg., "open licensing"
>which is not only a misnomer, but a clear attempt to capitalize on /
>undercut the momentum and mind share of open source.
>
I have a sample of another attempt to redefine 'open'.
<excerpt>
228-00782 MICROSOFT - OPEN STANDARD Open Sql Svr 2000
C10-00475 MICROSOFT - OPEN STANDARD Open W2k Adv Svr
</excerpt>
M$ marketing has decided that being "OPEN" is a buzzword
which might get them attention from the PHBs and they believe
that whatever they produce is *the* "STANDARD" so no harm in
reminding anyone who might have a short memory.
But why do they need both "OPEN" and "Open" ?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 04:04:41 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>Hans Adams wrote:
>>
>> David Steinberg wrote:
>> >
>> > You mention that there are better-designed, more modular kernels out
>> > there. Please explain how they would allow him to do any of these things
>> > without recompiling. More to the point, please explain how such
>> > activities would be possible at all with a kernel for which no source code
>> > is available.
>> >
>>
>> Just speaking for myself, not any --- even honest --- company.
>>
>> Dear David,
>>
>> more modern concepts have been thought and implemented.
>>
>> Nearly almost they rely on a micro kernel. This approach allows you to
>> start and stop services, includig such dealing with hardware, without
>> rebooting or even touching kernel address space.
>>
>> Microsoft did so to implement NT, though they have to reboot to
>> integrate services into the kernel.
>>
>> Sun Micro Systems bought Chorus, France, to get hands onto a really
>> distributed, microkernel-based OS, Chorus on MIX.
>>
>> Best of all, this appraoch is available on Linux. Apple used it to build
>> MK-Linux. A Linux kernel 2.0.3x based on L4 has been proposed and
>> implemented by Gernot Heisser et. al. .
>>
>> Linux Torvald has not yet allowed to incorporate this modern approach
>> into the main streammof Linux development, though it is getting really
>> urgent meanwhile....
>
>Primarily because micro-kernels are counter-productive to performance.
>
>EVERYTHING has trade-offs...including Micro-kernels.
>
>
I don't understand this post at all.
HURD is the GNU OS which is developed around the Micro-kernel
architecture using C++ OOP.
They actually have an install CD for Hurd now.
As far as commerical use and the Hurd goes, I don't know.
They have another year or more of development to go before
they have adequate hardware support for most users to
accept the Hurd.
The Hurd to me seems like an OS for computer scientists.
You can actually take down modules and recompile them
without forcing a reboot. Every user under Hurd
can have his/her own customized operating system
environment.
There could be some business and personal benefits
to this. It might even be more secure.
There is a claim that the Hurd will be more scalable
than Linux in the multi-processor environment with
better performance.
And with the Hurd, a user can crash his environment
completely and not take down other users in the
process. This is why I say it's a specialized
computer scientist WORKING OS. It has some
very special features.
I would like to try Hurd this year.
Charlie
>
>
>>
>> > --
>> > David Steinberg -o)
>> > Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
>>
>> Indeed, you should proceed studying... best, Hans Adams
>
>
>--
>Aaron R. Kulkis
>Unix Systems Engineer
>DNRC Minister of all I survey
>ICQ # 3056642
>
>
>H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
>I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
>J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
>A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
>B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
>C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
>D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
>E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
>F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
>G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:00:21 -0500
nuxx wrote:
>
> "Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > Do you have a link for that? Because that's *just* over 5 minutes a
> > > year, and for all the bleating MS does, I've never talked to a 2k admin
> > > (that I trust not to lie... newsgroups? ha!) that would claim they only
> > > need to reboot their machine once or twice a year.
>
> Here's one.
>
> > Due to the intrinsic crappiness of MS software, and its
> > chronic inability to cope with real world events, it happens
> > that situations slowly build up so that finally you're
> > forced to reboot. You're not dealing with random events, but
> > with predictable ones. If you use statistics, you're wrong.
> >
> > Therefore if you succeed in keeping up 100 servers for 5
> > days (which is not so bad for Win2k), and stop your test at
> > the first crash, you may claim an average uptime of 500
> > days, but it's not correct.
> > The average uptime is just 5 days, because all the other 99
> > will crash in a short time, for the same reason.
> >
> Do you really believe this? If the best you can do is keep W2k Server up
> for 5 days then you have no business being anywhere near it. Perhaps being
> in charge of a Playstation would be more appropriate.
I guess the same thing should be said for Microsoft, as even they
can only keep Lose2k up for 7 days...
>
> regards,
> nuxx.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 04:06:39 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >
> > "The Find command helps you find things" ???
>
> C:\>help find
> Searches for a text string in a file or files.
>
> FIND [/V] [/C] [/N] [/I] [/OFF[LINE]] "string" [[drive:][path]filename[
> ...]]
>
> /V Displays all lines NOT containing the specified string.
> /C Displays only the count of lines containing the string.
> /N Displays line numbers with the displayed lines.
> /I Ignores the case of characters when searching for the string.
> /OFF[LINE] Do not skip files with offline attribute set.
> "string" Specifies the text string to find.
> [drive:][path]filename
> Specifies a file or files to search.
>
> If a path is not specified, FIND searches the text typed at the prompt
> or piped from another command.
Good comeback, but I've seen quite a few help screens that were about
as "helpful" as the one Aaron makes fun of.
Also, do "man find" on a Linux box, and you get roughly 350 lines of
description of a find command that makes the Doz one above look pallid.
But we could bat this shit back and forth ad nauseum. Everyone knows
the Windoz version of UNIX command-line commands are crap.
Chris
--
Flipping the Bozo bit at 400 MHz
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 04:08:08 GMT
Kyle Jacobs wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > > However, Kyle Jacobs has yet to identify any of them.
> > >
> > > He's probably still trying to come up with Schrodinger's equation.
> > >
> >
> >
> > +---------------------------------------+
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |
> Other way round you ass.
Is this the reply of the big-time bizzzznezzzzzman
we heard from earlier. Heaven forfend! What would
his clients think?!!
--
Flipping the Bozo bit at 400 MHz
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wow, an actual survey (Linux dissatisfactions and wish-lists)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:04:13 -0500
Flacco wrote:
>
> > The ability to type
> >
> > ./configure
> > make
> > make install
> >
> > does not constitute programming skill.
>
> I agree with you, but how much programming skill is required to simply
> attach this script to a button somewhere?
>
> Why put off those who are uncomfortable with the command-line?
>
> Do we want to *repel* converts on the desktop?
What he means is that, all those who claim that the only way to install
Linux apps
is "be a lifelong programmer" are disengenious.
Remember DOS...."the masses" used it, despite the poor quality of it's CLI.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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