Linux-Advocacy Digest #946, Volume #31 Sat, 3 Feb 01 20:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux headache (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: questions (windows & Mac)....? (Shane Phelps)
Re: Steve / Mike / Clair-Lynn / FlatFish+++ / etc. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: More Mandrake Fun :( (Black Dragon)
Re: NTFS Limitations (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code (Black Dragon)
Uptime crap on Windows 2000? Nope....LINsUX lies ("--====--"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
Re: My open-source quote ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Add to the microsoft secret code ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:10:00 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Fri, 02 Feb 2001 02:44:17 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:12:14 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >(The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
> >
> >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote
> >>on Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:16:52 GMT
> >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>>On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:22:33 -0500, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> >>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>And beating the snot out of Lose2k and LoseME
> >>>
> >>>Show me one survey that shows Linux taking over the desktop.
Let's actually take a look at that for a minute. First of all, According to
IDC, the Linux desktop is growing at a substantial rate. Most of the publicly
held Linux companies are reporting revenue and unit volume increases of
between 150 and 200% which means 2 1/2 times to 3 times the number of users
in the previous year. This has continued to grow for nearly 3 years. IDC
reported that at the end of 1999, Linux held roughly 3-5% of the desktop
market. Microsoft's growth has been slower, only about 10% this year in
terms of unit volumes. Windows 2000 has been so bad they literally couldn't
give it away and eventually had to force a "paper transfer" of Windows 2000
licenses to corporate customers who were promised free upgrades to Windows
2000 if they purchased Windows NT. Microsoft's own estimate was that 50
million customers took NT under the "free upgrade" offer.
The OEMs were forced to install Windows ME in all of their new machines, but
consumers weren't exactly making a huge commitment to Windows ME. While ME
sales and Works sales were doing well, the Office 2000 applications weren't
selling well in the consumer market. Meanwhile, 4 million copies of
StarOffice have been downloaded since Sun Purchased the company. This was in
addition to the 40 million copies included with Red Hat, SuSE, Caldera, and
Mandrake Linux (I hope I haven't slighted anybody by forgetting them).
Microsoft still has a user base of 500 million machines, and annual sales of
over 100 million machines. This would put Linux at 20 percent of the
licenses sold. The Linux 2.4 kernel delays did slow sales somewhat during
the Christmas season, but they also impacted Windows ME sales as well.
The Statmarket survey, which checks the number of browsers used within the
industry puts the Linux share at between 7 and 10% (since most of these
register in the "other" catagory such as Konquerer, Squid proxy, and Netscape
"generic". Since Linux users generally purchase upgrades once a year on
average, Linux should be coming in during the next IDC survey at around
30-40% of license units shipped.
Beyond this "Desktop barrage", we are also seeing Linux showing up in more
and more appliances. The Sony Playstation 2 runs Red Hat Linux and Sony
couldn't keep up with demand. The TiVo box runs Linux. The LinkSys 4-port
cable/dsl modems that allow you share a single connection with up to 4
computers runs on Linux. There are a number of storage subsystems that run
embedded Linux.
There are also 2 "Internet Appliance" web browsing and e-mail machines that
ran about $300-$400 that also ran Linux.
IDC may have a hard time sorting out the license shipments. It's very likely
that there were more license units of Linux shipped this year than of
Microsoft Windows ME. But you would then have to sort those licenses into
Appliances, Servers, Desktops, Embedded systems, and upgrades.
One trend that seems to be dominating now is a reduction in the "Replication
rate". With versions of Caldera Linux being offered for as little as $9.99
per copy, and better versions offering much better selections of software,
there is less need to make unreported copies. In addition, more and more of
the distributions are including software which does require that additional
copies at least be reported. With companies like VMWare and StarOffice
requiring that users request activition keys (at no cost), there is a much
better capacity to accurately track the growth within the community.
Perhaps the most notable indicator is that Sun is now creating Desktop
offerings based on "Open Source Enhanced Linux" where all of the Linux code
can be run under Solaris, and on "Linux for SPArC". IBM and HP were more
focused on IA-64 solutions.
Of course, what is most exciting is the shift of mind-share. With MCSEs
suddenly finding themselves "obsolete" because they don't have the Windows
2000 certification, many are looking with more interest at Linux and Linux
certification.
Microsoft has alienated a great deal of talent and mind-share which
has found that the Linux community is quite happy to have them come
and play. Many Linux pioneers are now mentoring former MCSEs in the
care and feeding of Linux.
What's even more significant is that with more corporations realising that
Microsoft isn't going to meet most of their critical server needs are
desparately seeking UNIX administrators. Linux administration is very
similar to UNIX administration and the transition can be done quickly and
easily.
These same corporations are also realizing that Linux/UNIX administrators
aren't particularly interested in using Windows as their desktop. With
StarOffice, they can create and read documents that can be exchanged with
Microsoft Office users. With WINE, they can run Lotus Notes and other
applications that aren't yet available in Linux IBC formats. Finally, with
VNC, they can share a Windows 2000 machine when they have to.
When you add commercial products such as Win4Lin (which gives good Windows 98
capatibility) or VMWare (which gives excellent Windows NT and Windows 2000
capabilility at a $300 price-tag), there is no reason to deny those who want
to run Linux on their desktops the ability to do so.
What makse this significant is that they can now be more productive than
their Windows counterparts. It's about like that commercial where the guy
wants the plastic, and the guy behind the laptop is ordering 10 tons to be
delivered tomorroww - during the meeting.
In many cases, Linux people are like that. As the meeting proceed,s they can
be cooking up the core html forms so that by the time the meeting resumes the
following day, he has the preliminary form and the database configured.
Linux programmers are actually creating a "productivity breakthrough". With
the ability to get more done in less time, they have created the remarkable
problem for Management of actually reducing or clearing the backlog of
projects. Project originally estimated at $10 million are suddenly coming in
at $100,000. Projects that were originally estimated to take 2 years under
Windows 2000 are being done in 4 months under Linux.
Of course, this creates a whole new set of competitive strains on
traditionally Microsoft oriented corporations. They are suddenely unable to
offer these rediculous bids. You see, the average Linux user not only has
the intellectual property of his company, but also the entire arsenal of the
Open Source community at his disposal.
What makse this even more significant is that in industries which are highly
regulated or in which business transactions are more complex, Open Source is
making it possible to create workable solutions that meet regulatory
requirements in very short time-frames. The traditional Microsoft approach
of "thick clients" just doesn't cut it.
Even more interesting is that more and more companies are putting business
documents in HTML format or XML format rather than leaving it in Microsoft
Word, Excel, and PowerPoint formats.
Even 3D renderings are being implemented in OpenGL rather than DirectX.
2 years ago, most of the presentations at the Linux Expo were delivered using
Microsoft's Powerpoint presentation package. This year, about the only
Windows consoles on display were those used to demonstrate how easily a Linux
server could be configured and managed using a Web Browser - even on Windows.
Presentations were given on Linux systems using Linux software such as Star
Office presentation, Corel Presenter, Applix Presents, or KDE Kpresenter.
We're even seeing "OpenFlock" groupware. Of course, some of the highlights
of the show were the SuSE 7.1 personal edition which features the 2.4 kernel
and KDE 2.1. Very impressive. Another exciting booth stuck way in the back
was "two-pound-Linux". It was a small Sony Vaio with built in real-time
video camera and fully operational Linux system. To put it mildly, it wery
impressive. Of course, it also featured the IEEE 1394 interface so that you
could save videoo if the 10 gig drive didn't hold enough.
Presentations were given using Web pages, StarOffice, Kpresenter, Corel
Presentation (Draw), and Applix Presents. There's a lot of really outstanding
software. There are even some standards for managing interchange between
presentation packages.
> >>Show us a survey that shows Win2k taking over the server market. :-)
> >
> >That's not was being discussed,
> >Stop changing the subject,
>
> Well, OK. Linux is not taking over the desktop. In fact, I would
> venture to say it will never take over the desktop, until and
> unless people get over the notion that Microsoft is better than
> Linux because Microsoft is a collected bunch of programmers
> (plus QA personnell plus technical support plus accounts payable
> plus accounts receivable plus sales plus marketing plus plus plus...),
> whereas Linux is a very loosely distributed enterprise done by
> a bunch of amateur hackers in their spare time (with the possible
> exception of the kernel which is managed by Linux Torvalds,
> although it's not clear to me how much work he does on the kernel
> proper as opposed to analyzing and accepting (or rejecting) patches
> submitted thereto. (There's another guy involved; one of them does
> development (x.odd), and the other stable (x.even), but I can't
> remember his name to save me.).)
>
> Now that IBM is in the picture, this could change; IBM's model
> is somewhat similar to Microsoft's as far as code development goes.
> I could easily see IBM managing its cadre of programmers, who look
> over freeware source code, fix bugs in it, and release it back to the
> community under the same license. (Whether this is something they're
> doing, I don't know. I don't work there. :-) )
>
> They can also take patches from the freeware community, of course,
> if they make sense. No software is bug-free.
>
> One other issue regarding desktops. Desktops are on the desk,
> or perhaps underneath it; if something goes wrong, push the button,
> Frank [*], the machine reboots, and it's all better now. Servers, by
> contrast, are where Linux shines -- because one can manage a Unix
> or Linux server without shutting it down, in most cases. Microsoft,
> by contrast, usually, though not always, requires a reboot after a
> software load or config change; one can of course bodge things
> a bit by reconnecting after the reboot finishes, or having a device
> that can force a reboot and/or a power cycle, should things hang,
> such as a watchdog board. Such boards can even work around virii
> by having a ROM (EEPROM?) with a bootblock copy, I would think.
>
> Win2k is an improvement, as I understand it, in reliability.
> It certainly helped my employer.
>
> So whither the desktop? I don't know. I would hope Linux has a
> place therein, though.
>
> >
> >Flatfish
> >Why do they call it a flatfish?
> >Remove the ++++ to reply.
>
> [*] MST3k
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 1d:01h:18m actually running Linux.
> This space for rent.
>
--
Rex Ballard - Sr I/T Systems Architect
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 80 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 9%/month! (recalibrated 01/14/00)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: questions (windows & Mac)....?
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:29:48 +1100
Peter Hayes wrote:
>
> On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 20:41:21 +1100, Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> <deletia>
>
> > > What about the 80's?
> > >
> > > There was at least 5 years there were there was NO viable
> > > GUI from Microsoft. Even when Microsoft did manage one
> > > (early 90's) you still had to deal with ALL of the old
> > > 1981 sort of arcana from MS-DOS.
> > >
> > > Windows 3.1 WAS STILL DOS.
> > >
> >
> > The 80s. Those were the days. GUIs hadn't been invented in the 80s.
> > They were still WIMPs back then :-)
> >
> > It's going back a while, but I seem to recall that the computer press
> > and most of the x86 camp were very dismissive of WIMPs in general,
> > and the Mac in particular. Apple's policies didn't help much,either :-(
> >
> > The reason I concentrated on the release of Windows 3.1 is because that
> > gave Apple the real window (pun intended) of opportunity. The press
> > suddenly became very supportive of GUIs, as did MS. If Apple had launched
> > a well-planned campaign to push the Mac at that stage I think they would
> > have won. They had a few years in which they could have done it, but
> > it didn't work out that way. I think there were a couple of x86 emulators
> > available on the 68k Macs, but they may have come along later.
> >
> > Apple wasn't a particularly nice company to do business with at that stage,
> > either. Who knows, we may all have been complaining about the Apple Tax
> > and that @$*$ Steve Jobs (or more likely, John Scully) in a different
> > timeline :-)
>
> And Apple spent much time and money in its fruitless and ill-conceived
> "look-and-feel" lawsuit against Microsoft.
>
The funny thing is that Apple got most of the WIMPS idea from Xerox.
IIRC, Xerox finally came in and sued Apple, but that case didn't go
anywhere because they'd waited too long.
> Anyone who thinks Microsoft is a litigeous organisation should recall
> Apple's many and continuing ventures into the courtroom. I believe their
> latest lawsuit is aimed at Cobalt(?) because they (Cobalt) had the temerity
> to market a cube shaped computer, as if a geometric shape was patentable.
>
That might be a bit of a dig at Sun. Sun was rumoured to be considering
buying Apple a few years back to build thin clients (probably something
akin to the iMac :-). This is probably Jobs having a dig at Sun.
> No wonder Apple are going down the tubes.
>
They've picked up from where they were a few years back
(current quarter excepted), but still aren't setting the world alight.
MacOS X looks to be a nice system from what I've seen so far.
If they can concentrate on building and selling computers instead of
fighting everybody else, and if they're treating the other companies
properly now and the transition to OS X is as well done as the shift
from the 68K to PPC I think they'll do well.
There's room for more than 1 company and more than 1 OS and more than
1 hardware platform (and no, I didn't just aim that at MS).
Diversity and choice are good things, which we should encourage.
> Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Steve / Mike / Clair-Lynn / FlatFish+++ / etc.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:29:14 GMT
On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:57:12 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Black Dragon) wrote:
Completely inaccurate, especially for a Linvocate.
You need to do your research a little more carefully.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Black Dragon)
Subject: Re: More Mandrake Fun :(
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:27:04 GMT
On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:08:27 -0500 in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> `Aaron R. Kulkis' said:
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: >
: > So today I go to shut down Mandrake 7.2 and it won't shut down
: > properly. It goes through the menues of turning things off but then
: > just goes back to the KDM login screen which blinks for a second or 2
: > and then it tries to start the X-Server, which blinks a couple of
: > times and it goes through the same routine, over and over and over
: > again.
: > Can't kill the X-server via key presses.
: > Can't login to another terminal.
: > Ctrl-Alt-Del does not work.
: > BRS time.
: >
: > Next boot up entire file system is scrambled and after 5 hours of
: > churning still has not produced a working system.
: >
: > I'm going to let it churn over night and see what happens but I don't
: > expect much.
: >
: > Great system this Linux.
: > Great system indeed.
: > Great system NOT!!!!
: >
: > And before you tell me that Mandrake is NOT Linux, to me it IS Linux
: > because that is the distribution that I bought.
:
: You have an incredible future in writing FICTION.
Future? 374 of this sock puppets fictitious posts during the past 35
days live on my isp's news spool. That's an incredible PAST!
: However, first, you should change one detail, to make it CREDIBLE...
: namely, that your story is based on experiences with LoseDOS, not Linux.
With the use of some 31+ different aliases during a least the
last 12 months:
Steve/Mike/Heather/Simon/teknite/keymaster/keys88/Sewer Rat/
S/Sponge/Sarek/piddy/McSwain/pickle_pete/Ishmeal_hafizi/
Syphon/Proculous/Tiberious/Amy/Jerry_Butler/Wobbles/wazzoo/
Tim Palmer/BklynBoy/susie_wong/leg log/bison/deadpenguin/
clair_lynn/Swango/flatfish++++/
this fuckwits definition of the term Credibility = *NOISE*.
--
Black Dragon
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:34:48 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> So basically, in every scientific and meaningful survey (i.e. business
> web sites), MS holds a strong majority.
>
> What say you to that?
>From Netcraft:
"However this debate still has a long way to run, with the
same community quickly responding to charges that Linux has a long
way to go to solve business problems that large companies face,
by pointing out that in the wake of its own DNS outages
Microsoft itself has moved some of its key DNS servers
to Linux by outsourcing this to Akamai."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Black Dragon)
Subject: Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:40:06 GMT
On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 22:33:35 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> `The Ghost In The Machine' said:
: >http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-4678406-0.html?tag=3Dmn_hd
:
: quote:
:
: "Our goal is to CNET's Linux Center make this (source code) available
: to many hundreds of customers," Miller said during an interview at the
: LinuxWorld Conference and Expo trade show in New York this week.
:
: end quote.
:
: The only problem is that these are Microsoft's larger customers.
: While it's clear that this is a step in the right direction,
: it's only a step -- and may easily be a step in the wrong direction
: as well, if Microsoft releases its source code to select
: customers (i.e., those who can pay, or allocate engineers
: for fixes), but not to the man on the street.
Is it the source code, OR, is it documentation for previously
un-documented API's. Due to the fact that the customers have
signed NDA's, we'll probably never know the truth. (not that
Microsoft knows what it is either, lying fscking criminals!)
--
Black Dragon
------------------------------
From: "--==<\( Jeepster \)>==--" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Uptime crap on Windows 2000? Nope....LINsUX lies
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 21:02:42 -0000
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www2.marketwatch.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: My open-source quote
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 22:31:09 +0000
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> =
> Peter K=F6hlmann wrote:
> >
> > Ralph Miguel Hansen wrote:
> > > I got TWO seats on my open-source-OS (bash and KDE) and my bicycle =
has got
> > > two wheels compared to the one very little wheel M$ has.
> > >
> > Which isn't round to boot.
> > Roundness is a concept not yet thought of at MS.
> > So one is constantly on a quite bumpy ride.
> =
> Microsoft Wheel 5.0
> Now with *EIGHT* sides.
> =
Well if they keep adding sides with each release, the wheel will tend to
round as time tends to infinity.
Sure is a long time to wait though...
-- =
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 22:51:51 +0000
"--==<( Jeepster )>==--" wrote:
>
> I shall expand the list for you.....
>
> Sinclair Microdrives (UK tape alternatives to floppies in the 80's)
>
> Sinclair C5
>
> TV-AM
>
> Peter Mandleson MP
>
> all are like LINsUX, almost good, but fall at the last jump where it really
> counts.
The Sinclair Microdrive was a good idea, but floppies rapidly became a
better answer to the probblem.
The C5 is most likely going to go down in history as a revolutionary
idea, especially when we run out of oil!
Mandleson is a prat.
TV-AM was NEVER, AT ALL, IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER, EVEN CLOSE TO
GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 22:55:01 +0000
> > Peter Mandleson MP
> >
> You'll have to elaborate on this one. He's gay, he's a liar
> (allegedly) and he's Labour. So?
>
You have the allegedly in the wrong place. At some point he has lied,
however, it is not a matter of public record what his sexuality is.
AFAIK the only evidence we have is an "accusation" made my the former
tory MP Matthew Parris on Newsnight
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 22:56:52 +0000
> c) use the latest hardware (do the words USB still strike fear into your
> heart?...it should, as far as I know only mice & keyboards are
> supported....oh dear)
and joysticks, at least one graphics tablet, some cameras etc etc
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:01:15 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:31:56 -0000, "--==<\( Jeepster \)>==--"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Oh my ribs, they are sore after both
> >
> >a) laughing
>
> Linux is quite funny when taken in the correct context.
>
> >I have tried linux, mandrake, redhat, storm, turbo and even yellow dog on
> >machine i borrowed for a month.
>
> Add SuSE, Slackware, TurboLinux, Caldera and Corel to my list.
>
> >Dont like them...sorry, maybe its personal taste, but i'd rather stay with
> >windows 2000 where i can
>
> They all suck but for different reasons.
>
> >a) buy software off the shelves
>
> Yep.
>
They SELL software? I thought I just got the sources off the net for
free. Do you mean to tell me people actually give other people money
for stuff you can get free?
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:02:26 +0000
"--==<( Jeepster )>==--" wrote:
>
> Nice one m8.....
>
> Ex-Windows users are like ex-smokers...always preaching, and denying others
> from doing what they used to do....
>
> I'd call that intolerant...
>
> thats nasty I say.....not a nice personality trait.
>
> Shame on them....
You don't like being told why we like Linux? Simple answer. Fuck off.
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:06:18 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:28:33 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Microcenter in my area has a whole section of the store for Linux, where do you
> >shop.
>
> Ask a sales person why the boxes are dusty and how many customers buy
> Linux programs.
> I do it all the time and the answer is always the same.
>
> >I do not have any USB peripherals, when they become competitive with
> >traditional counterparts, and I have need, I will get them. The 2.4 kernel
> >seems to have very good support for USB.
>
> Competitive?
>
> Try to NOT buy a USB device and see what happens.
> For better or worse USB is the new standard.
> Of course like with most standards, Linux need not apply.
>
Well if you manage NOT to buy USB, does it matter if you don't have
support?
However I bought some USB devices and they work. I plug then in, tell
the programs in question to use then and hey presto. What's your
problem? It isn't hard.
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:10:20 +0000
J Sloan wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > On 3 Feb 2001 04:04:11 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David
> > Steinberg) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Your definition of "standard" is "whatever Microsoft is doing this
> > >week." Real standards, including USB, are supported by Linux.
> >
> > No.
> >
> > I can take my USB scanner, printer and camera and move them from my
> > Windows PC right over to my iMac and they work fine.
> >
> > They don't, however work under Linux.
>
> I think I'll get a usb scanner this weekend and
> hook it up to my main Linux system. If flatfish
> claims it doesn't work under Linux, that's just
> about convinces me that it will work just fine.
>
> You see, flatfish doesn't understand what he's
> doing or why. He's beside himself with rage
> over the fact that Linux is gaining in popularity,
> that no matter how frantically he fuds, people
> are ignoring him and trying Linux - and liking
> it a lot.
>
> jjs
I think it's a case of "the power of suggestion". Flatfish is so
convinced that USB will never work under Linux, he subconsiously gets it
wrong.
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:14:19 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On 3 Feb 2001 17:35:14 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David
> Steinberg) wrote:
>
> >Clue: then they should buy hardware that is supported by their operating
> >system.
> >
> >Apart from software modems and printers, you can always find a comparable
> >model at a comparable price that will work just fine in Linux.
>
> 1. All devices I have say they are USB devices.
> 2. All devices work with Win and iMac.
> 3. Mandrake says it supports USB
> 4. None of them work under Linsux.
>
Do you actually want to run Linux? If so get hardware that works. If
not use your windows box and your Mac and piss off. Those of us for
whom Linux is useful don't have these problems.
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:18:02 +0000
> Go to mei and take a look for yourself.
> Talk to the sales people, who are quite often nice looking females
> (but I guess you know little about that).
>
So we have the truth at last! He just wants to look at the pretty
girls! I bet that's the only reason he has a computer!
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Add to the microsoft secret code
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:24:53 +0000
<snip>
you missed that bit that goes:
if(error){
while(true){
lock_everything;
}
}
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
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