Linux-Advocacy Digest #685, Volume #32 Wed, 7 Mar 01 08:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Bloody Viking)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Bloody Viking)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Bloody Viking)
Re: GPL Like patents. (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Linux Joke ("Niels")
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] (Stuart Krivis)
Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American (Karel Jansens)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Byron A Jeff)
Re: Largest Linux installation? (Sascha Bohnenkamp)
Re: GPL Like patents. (mlw)
Re: I am looking for a newsreader ("Frank Crawford")
Re: Do Windows developers settle? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Microsoft screws itself again! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Charlie Ebert)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:01:49 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> Autocad creates graphical outputs; OK, so they're vector-based, and it
> doesn't "do" your granny's holliday pics, but it _is_ a graphics program
> and a very popular one too. Autocad has always had the option to draw
> and edit from a command-line.
What kind of commands are in the CLI?
> I've used two programs from Autodesk (makers of Autocad): Home, a
> DOS-based subset of Autocad, aimed at - indeed - architectural drawings,
> and 3D-Concepts, a Windows 3.x program for creating and editing
> 3D-objects. Both were not only command-line enabled, but were in many
> instances actually easier to use than with the mouse.
>
> So yes, I have edited graphics with a CLI and yes, it was easier than
> with a mouse.
I don't doubt you, I just find it hard to believe.
How would you change one pixel from say red to black with the CLI?
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:58:50 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> Neither do I. But a simple thing like an engine temperature gauge can
> prevent an unfortunate nuisance (a broken thermostat) turning into an
> extremely expensive engine replacement job. Obviously, one needs to
> learn what the "cryptic" output of the thermometer means.
I'd hardly call the output of a thermometer "cryptic".
> Good for you. I do hope it was not because your old one ran out of fuel.
Actually it was because the fuel tank sprang a leak! As did the fuel
pipes under the car, in the engine... several faults. I bought the car
brand new in 1986 and sold it 14 years later... 8)
> > After learning what it does, it is still cryptic.
>
> That's an oxymoron.
No it's just cryptic.
> OK. Let's talk business then. Assuming you already have the pc, does
> that mean you are willing to pay the same amount as you would have paid
> for the programs on your Windows pc to have a linux pc with equivalent
> programs and a consistent interface?
I might except a Linux PC doesn't have that consistant interface as yet.
> Um, BTW, you do know that this consistence you seek is by no means
> guaranteed under Windows, yes?
I realise that, but most of what I use is pretty consistant.
> > You may not like it, but the most popular platform always had more
> > applications. It's naff in that respect, but that's life.
>
> Success = popular ?
Seems to be.
> "Success" is a relative word: it is basically meaningless unless you
> know what was aimed for. One of the really good tricks of marketing and
> advertising is turning relative words into absolute ones, thus creating
> good-sounding, but meaningless battle-cries.
>
> "Windows is successful!" should be immediately followed by: "At what?"
>
> As it turns out, your reply appears to be: "At being popular".
Witness the battle between Betamax and VHS. VHS is the inferior product
but it's the one that won.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: 7 Mar 2001 10:24:07 GMT
. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: You probably need to think back a little further, to when they had
: serious competition, and people weren't constantly being FORCED to
: upgrade because of other dicks who had and couldn't figure out how to
: save in the previous file format.
And don't forget the occasional Trojan horse "demo" for a price no less, to
spice things up. Remember the Office 97 demo? Same old lame file format
extortion. This time, in a Trojan demo.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: 7 Mar 2001 10:26:46 GMT
. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: > > It has for linux users. <g>
: >
: > ...depending on which idiot is stupid enough to give it away for free.
: What a juvenile comment. Someone gives their hard work and effort to the
: entire world to use in whatever way they see fit, and you call them an
: idiot... for what? Not making money? Generosity?
: You're a sad excuse for a human being if money means that much to you, or
: charity means so little.
Maybe he's NOT a human being after all, but an ape with the telltale fur
lasered off and some plastic surgery.
Damn, that's an insult to real apes.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: 7 Mar 2001 10:36:13 GMT
David Brown ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: The auto "correction" features can be a real pain. Here in Norway, people
: often use English language versions of software (as you point out, MS cannot
: distinguish code and text, so local language versions, especially of
: "smaller" languages, tend to have more bugs and compatibility problems -
: things like Excel being unable to read its own csv files because it gets
: confused with decimal points and decimal commas). We often see documents
: were Word has helpfully capitalised the Norwegian word "i" (meaning "in") to
: "I".
I remember playing with the "preference settings" on 95. I changed the nation
setting to international English hoping that it would set the spell checker to
Brit compliant. Nope, any poor sod from England would get a spell checker to
enforce MS-English(tm) v.1.0. Result for this Yank? I use no spell checkers.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Subject: Re: GPL Like patents.
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:48:13 GMT
On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:33:48 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|Roberto Alsina wrote:
|> http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/gnu-misc-discuss/1998-May/013912.html
|
|Clearly his statements are NOT covered by the current GPL, he is even clear
|about how this scenario is not described in the document.
|
|Legally, if it isn't explicitly limited, it isn't limited. His conclusions are
|not supported by the GPL which he authored. The program vendor 'B' argument is
|in no way disallowed or even provided by the current GPL.
Actually, you seem to be approaching this from the wrong direction.
The default position, without the GPL, is copyright law. Copyright law grants you
absolutely *ZERO* rights to use somebody elses source code in your program.
The GPL (and LGPL) are *GRANTING* you *ADDITIONAL* rights, over and above what you
would otherwise have.
The correct wording of the first sentance in your above paragraph is "Legally,
if it isn't explicitly granted, it is't granted."
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: "Niels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Joke
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:44:27 +0100
>> Never hacked, never down, never fail.
>
>You left off, respectively:
>Not worth hacking, never worked hard, no one would notice.
Let me tell you that for some people every *nix box is worth hacking, cause
they run major
DDoS networks with over 1000 or maybe even more r00t3d boXes to play around
with...
These guys wont leave any unsecure box around, i know of some UK cracker
group that seems to have scanned and rooted thousands of unsecure wuftpd
boxes, and DDoS irc servers with it...
So maybe owners wont notice but other people do..!
Talk, Listen, Think and talk again =)
Quazion.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart Krivis)
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: 7 Mar 2001 06:01:42 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 22:40:28 +1100, Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Are they allowed to export yet?
>
>SecureCRT appeared to be one of the better Windows ssh clients a couple of
>years back when I was looking for something, but I couldn't buy it ($^%#ing
>stupid US crypto export laws). I wound up using puTTY for some jobs and
>ZOC
>for others.
ftp.zedz.net
There is usually a copy floating around there or at hacktic.
I don't know what the rules for purchase are though. I don't see
anything about purchase outside the US or Canada, just that you can't
D/L it.
--
Stuart Krivis
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:45:41 +0100
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> For energy _storage media_ like hydrogen (takes more energy than you get,
> hence "storage media") you need a _source_ to have it. Breeders like crazy? I
> say yes, but we all know about the politics of nuke plants. Nukes is the long
> term solution, to power homes and factories, electric rail, etc. Hydrogen has
> the annoying problem of being awful cold, second to liquid helium.
>
This question is probably out-of-bounds for this newsgroup (but then
again, is it <G>?): How difficult is it to "transform" hydrogen into
more manageable hydrocarbons, like methane or alcohol?. If that could be
done easily, a home-based powerplant would not sound so wild anymore
(use solar, wind, whatever to generate power and store as
easily-manageable alcohol or methane).
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: 7 Mar 2001 06:54:57 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
WJP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>And, as an aside, I did a web search the other day for Linux drivers for
>my ATI Rage 64 video card. And, to my amazement, I found a set of
>drivers - at a cost of $89 (US) - which is not too far away from the
>price I originally paid for the video card. It appears that I will be
>"stuck" with the svga Linux drivers for awhile, at least.
This is one of my favorite cards. The XFree86 Mach64 driver works
beautifully on it.
What exactly are you looking for in terms of a driver?
BAJ
------------------------------
From: Sascha Bohnenkamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Largest Linux installation?
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:16:40 +0100
Mohd-Hanafiah Abdullah wrote:
we here at Mevis (centrum for Medical Visualization) use Linux as
Fileserver (1TB, Tape-library, 1GB RAM, SMP etc.) and proxy, mail etc.
(two server-systems)
Some of our developers prefer to work on Linux :)
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GPL Like patents.
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 07:21:20 -0500
Paul Colquhoun wrote:
>
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:58:44 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> |Roberto Alsina wrote:
> |>
> |> mlw wrote:
> |>
> |> >> Which means that if you distribute the work with GPL'd code, even if it
> |> >> could be "reasonably considered independant and seperate works", then you
> |> >> must license it as GPL'd.
> |> >
> |> > This is an invalid interpretation. I don't agree. In section 2, it clearly
> |> > states what is derived work.
> |>
> |> The point is not "derived work" that is not defined by the GPL anyway, but
> |> by copyright law. The GPL speaks of "a larger work".
> |>
> |> Read the GPL, as you said.
> |>
> |> > Your interpretation of "one iota" is incorrect. If you statically
> |> > incorporate GPL code into your program, then
> |> > you do make a derived work, however, if you do not, and simply link to a
> |> > shared library, then everything is fine. I think that is quite fair.
> |>
> |> The GPL says nothing about linking, either statically or dynamically. What
> |> part of the GPL are you using to draw this line?
> |
> |Reasonable question:
> |
> |Answer:
> |The first paragraph after (c) in section 2 states:
> |>>>>>>>>>>>>
> |(1) These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. (2)If
> |identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be
> |reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this
> |License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them
> |as separate works. (3) But when you distribute the same sections as part of a
> |whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must
> |be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend
> |to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote
> |it.
> |<<<<<<<<<<<<
> |
> |(1) Limits the GPL to a single modified work.
> |(2) Indicates that if you keep the GPL code separate from yours and your code
> |is not merely an extension, yours need not be GPL.
> |(3) Indicates that if you incorporate GPL code INTO your work, you must make it
> |GPL.
> |
> |In the simplest terms, if you dynamically link to GPL code it can be
> |"reasonably considered independent."
> |
> |If you statically link code into your program, then your program contains GPL
> |code. If you dynamically link to GPL code then your program does not contain
> |GPL code.
>
> If your code depends on the GPL code, and won't run without it, how
> independent can it be?
My code won't run without a hard disk or RAM or even a processor, does that
mean it is not independent of these things?
>
> If you want to link in dynamic libraries, check out the "Library GPL".
>
> The LPGL was devised for just this purpose.
>
> The glibc library (v2.2) on my Linux system is licensed under the LGPL.
This is the whole problem with this debate. It seems reasonable people argue
about the basic terms, and RMS is assigning far too much weight to his
interpretation.
I did talk to a lawyer a while back about the license. I am working on a search
engine library and wanted to release it GPL, and was pretty sure that it was
the right way to go, but now I'm not so sure.
A reasonable person should conclude certain things about the GPL from a dry
interpretation of the contract. However, with all the postings and public
statements of RMS, which I never paid too much attention too, establishes, as
public record, clearer definitions for possibly ambiguous terms, which can no
longer be ignored.
Given the text of the GPL and copyright law, it should be perfectly obvious
that dynamic linking to a GPL work would be well within the rules to avoid a
GPL license on your code. Section 2 seems to indicate that. However, since
there is a public record of the authors interpretation, the text must be read
within the context of the supporting documentation.
Given some of the wild and outrageous interpretations by RMS, I am in violation
of the GPL for a GPL library I have postgres. Since Postgres is not GPL, and my
library is, he says I am in violation for writing GPL code for a non-GPL
application. Now, no where does it say that I can't do this, and I bet I could
win a court case against this interpretation, but who needs that crap.
--
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Frank Crawford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I am looking for a newsreader
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:18:46 +0000
> Knode is ok but I want something like Xnews, that I can run on my linux
> partition (SuSE 7.0, KDE 2.1). I have tried krn and did not like it
> either.
Brad, I don't know if you're picking up a pattern here ; ), but pan is:
excellent!
IMHO it's the best. v. good indeed.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Do Windows developers settle?
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:27:18 GMT
Donn Miller wrote:
>
> Well, X isn't that bad -- it's just got a lot of detail in it, because
> of its "mechanism not policy" philosphy. So, yes, you'd be programming
> quite a lot of lines of code just to open a window that writes "Hello,
> world!" in the center. And, that's not even taking into account the
> code required for WM hints, such as the window title, icon size, icon
> file location, etc. Finding the appropriate X toolkit would help. But
> then, there's just so many X toolkits, I'd be afraid I'd be investing a
> lot of time learning one toolkit, only to find out I like another
> better.
I like the style of GTK+, even though it's only C, and kinda forces
you to Gnome. (I have a slight preference for Gnome for two reasons:
KDE is too Win-like, and Gnome has "Gn" in its name.)
Chris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Microsoft screws itself again!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:59:54 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ray Chason wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking) wrote:
>
>>The fun begins when chips come with _integrated water
>>jacket packaging_ to watercool them like car engines. At that point, Moore's
>>Law ends on the desktop with silicon, leaving any speed increases to
>>overclockers with ice water cooling systems.
>
>I seriously doubt J. Random Luser will tolerate water cooling in his
>computer. Consider how often car radiators spring leaks, and then
>consider the consequences when this happens in anything electronic.
>
>And then there's all that energy that the faster chips suck up, a
>serious problem for laptops and anything that needs a UPS.
>
>Thus I give the Pentium architecture about five years to live. To
>get more speed, Intel either must stuff more and more circuits onto
>a chip, generating more and more heat, or just say the hell with it
>and move to Itanium.
>
>The Pentium instruction set will live on in emulation, of course, as
>the 68K set does on PowerPC Macs.
>
IF YOU BELIEVE -
The latest Intel Propaganda, they now have a chip which goes 1,000 gigahertz.
That's 1000 times faster than today's market chips.
And THEY say it will be on the market before 2005.
And that's where we are all going.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:01:09 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tim Hanson wrote:
>
>Unix _anywhere_ was never very available to people until now. I
>remember in the late eighties, in my early DOS days, being a little
>curious about what it would take to experiment with Unix. You no doubt
>know how far that went without a University or employer account. Until
>Linus came along, no one could afford the hardware, and no one could
>afford the software.
>
>Well, that isn't totally true; FreeBSD was around after it became legal,
>but Linux was definitely the groundbreaker.
>
This is true.
FreeBSD is the James Dean of OS's.
Charlie
------------------------------
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