Linux-Advocacy Digest #726, Volume #32 Fri, 9 Mar 01 16:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time (Steve Mading)
Re: What does IQ measure? (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time (Steve Mading)
Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time (Steve Mading)
Re: What does IQ measure? (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linux Joke (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Alan Cox shaves his beard of for comic relief! (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linus Torsvald's machine specification ("Reefer")
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market ("Masha Ku'Inanna")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time
Date: 9 Mar 2001 20:36:18 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: news:988tq6$i1e$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
:> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Jay Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: wrote:
:> : On 7 Mar 2001 23:56:51 GMT, Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: wrote:
:> :>Here's a free clue: Freedom is optimized when *some* reasonable
:> :>limits exist.
:>
:> : I think that, in a careful analysis of those limits, they all boil down
: to
:> : one principle: "Do not harm another without his consent." The GPV goes
: well
:> : beyond the requirements that principle places.
:>
:> :>The key debatable point here is whether or not the GPL's rules are of
:> :>the type that lead to greater freedom. I don't think they are,
:> :>but I also dislike this line of argument that claims the only
:> :>way for a license to be free is for it to have absolutely no rules
:> :>attached at all.
:>
:> : The only rules that need to be attached are those that prevent people
: from
:> : taking code released freely and making it no longer available at all to
:> : anyone under the terms it was originally released. Fortunately, it is
: not
:> : necessary to write such rules into the license; they are inherent in the
:> : body of law that licenses are a part of. BSD-licensed code can NEVER be
: made
:> : non-free, even though the BSDL contains no explicit provisions to
: guarantee
:> : that.
:>
:> BSD socket code was put into Windows, a non-free (in both senses of
:> the word) product. Originally it had been giving credit to BSD
:> in some verbiage, but it dropped that now that the newer BSD liceses
:> no longer require mentioning where you got your code from. This is
:> an example of making some BSD licensed code non-free. It's true
:> to say that the GPL goes too far by requiring all derivative code to
:> be released, but the BSD doesn't go far enough, because it doesn't
:> even require that its own code be released, even if unmodified.
: Nope, the original code is still available, whatever MS did with the code is
: irrelevent.
Embrace-and-extend is a working way to make the original less useful.
Consider HTML. MS originally opposed the internet and web browsing,
preferring an AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve type of model for their MSN. When
it became clear that it wouldn't work, they instead embraced and
extended the technology, so that now there are some websites out there
that don't work worth a damn if don't use Internet Explorer. They
did this by glomming onto a fairly open protocol (HTML) and adding things
that didn't improve it one bit, they merely made it incompatable.
The main complaint of the anti-GPL crowd seems to be that they
want free software to be a one-way street - they want to be
parasites of free software rather than participants in it.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.singles
Subject: Re: What does IQ measure?
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:49:54 -0500
Scott Gardner wrote:
>
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:46:13 -0800, "Paolo Ciambotti"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Donovan Rebbechi"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>Give some examples of highly intelligent people like this.
> >>
> >> I'd give myself as an example. But then, I didn't score poorly on the IQ
> >> test I took. I suppose some speedier types may have scored slightly
> >> higher.
> >>
> >> It may be possible that there are people who are statistical anomolies
> >> (for example, maybe someone with a learning disability takes twice as
> >> long, but produces accurate answers) and anyone who believes a single
> >> number to be a comprehensive measure of man needs to have his IQ
> >> tested(-;
> >
> >I guess I'm one of those anomolies. I have a disability call Asperger's
> >syndrome. I got tested three times in school between the fifth grade and
> >graduation because of my learning problems. My Stanford-Binet varied
> >between 148 and 166, but according to my SAT scores I couldn't even
> >spell my name right. Go figure.
> >
> >Actually, it's sort of a neat disability. A lot of Asperger's sufferers are
> >inclined toward the computer industry. For instance, if I'm programming
> >an application that requires an N-dimensional array, I can actually
> >visualize such an array in my mind where non-sufferers are stuck with
> >only two or maybe three dimensions. I think in pictures, everything is
> >graphically represented. Verbal communications sucks, and writing
> >something like this is a chore you wouldn't believe because I've already
> >multitasked to the end of this document and I have no idea how to accurately
> >convey my thoughts in such a dimensionless medium as sequential text.
> >
> >See what I mean?
>
> I know exactly what you mean. I have the opposite problem, although I
> don't think it's actually a condition or a disability, I think it's
> just something I'm not particularly good at. I have a hard time
> thinking in three dimensions, and N-dimensional space makes my brain
> hurt. I've always done extremely well on standardized tests and IQ
> tests, but there are types of problems I just don't do well on at all.
> For example, the problems where you're given a patterned cube, shown
> unfolded, and have to tell what the cube will look like when it is
> folded together stump me.
> There were also questions on the Naval Aviation test that I
> had a hard time with. They would give you a view out of the cockpit,
> and you had to match it with the correct birds-eye external view of
> the plane. The surroundings were comprised of air, water, beach, and
> the coastline, and the plane could be banking, climbing, diving,
> inverted, headed out to sea, in towards the land, or paralleling the
> coast. For all I know, those questions could be the reason I'm a
> Naval Flight Officer today and not a Pilot!
Ya think?
>
> Scott Gardner
> LT US Navy
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time
Date: 9 Mar 2001 20:44:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Pat McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jay Maynard) writes:
:> On 7 Mar 2001 23:56:51 GMT, Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> >The key debatable point here is whether or not the GPL's rules are of
:> >the type that lead to greater freedom. I don't think they are,
:> >but I also dislike this line of argument that claims the only
:> >way for a license to be free is for it to have absolutely no rules
:> >attached at all.
: Steve,
: Your point is not worth debating until we define "greater freedom".
: First, greater than what? Then, what is freedom? Good luck.
[snip good points]
The problem here is that in this universe it isn't physically
POSSIBLE to be free to do everything. Some actions are
mutually exclusive. Freedom to do X and Freedom to do Y
cannot both exist at once, for certain X's and Y's. Thus there
are NO totally "free" software licenses. There can't be. There
can only be 'free' licenses with caveats. Some people care more
about X than Y so they get all bitchy shouting "The foo license
doesn't enable the freedom to do X, so it's not really free", while
others bitch "The bar license doesn't enable the freedom to do Y,
so it's not really free".
So pick which is more important to you, X or Y, and then pick the
license (or write one) that makes it happen. Just don't get all
holier-than-thou and bitch and moan that the other license isn't
"free" just because the freedoms it gives aren't the ones you care
about.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time
Date: 9 Mar 2001 20:46:29 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Jay Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On 10 Mar 2001 01:25:03 +0900, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>religiously? i'm not surprised. anyway, could you explain to me why
:>i see this recurring phrase "congreff shall make no law..." and hey,
:>what about that bill of rights? they're phrased _negatively_, as
:>restrictions on uhh, Freedom. it's looking to me that in order to
:>establish good old-fashioned american-as-apple-pie freedom we have to
:>have limits (gasp) unfreedom (swoons), at the very least, a limit on
:>destroying the architecture of freedom. otherwise, as you say, it's a
:>hollow shell.
: Go back and read the Bill of Rights again, this time for comprehension. It
: is entirely a set of limits placed on governments (originally, just the US
: Congress, but later extended by the Fourteenth Amendment and related court
: cases) to prohibit them from infringing on the rights and freedoms assumed
: to be inherent in the status of being a free citizen.
So will you admit then that sometimes the total amount of freedom
can be increased BY placing certain limits on people? In this case,
the freedom of the populace is increased by limiting the freedom of
the government.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does IQ measure?
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:50:56 -0500
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 00:34:42 GMT, Scott Gardner wrote:
> >On Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:46:13 -0800, "Paolo Ciambotti"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I know exactly what you mean. I have the opposite problem, although I
> >don't think it's actually a condition or a disability, I think it's
> >just something I'm not particularly good at. I have a hard time
> >thinking in three dimensions, and N-dimensional space makes my brain
> >hurt. I've always done extremely well on standardized tests and IQ
> >tests, but there are types of problems I just don't do well on at all.
> >For example, the problems where you're given a patterned cube, shown
> >unfolded, and have to tell what the cube will look like when it is
> >folded together stump me.
>
> A surprising amount of N-dimensional problems are just generalised
> flat-world problems. Visualising anything that doesn't fit into
Close..the opposite is true. Most flat-world problems are degenerate
cases of N-dimensional problems.
> R^3 is not very easy, but then you rarely have to do it. (even when
> solving advanced geometric problems) A lot of N-dimensional math
> boils down to either generalising flat-world arguments, or choosing
> projections / ( or suitably embedded subspaces ) and reducing problems
> to flat world arguments. Or simply forgetting about geometry
> altogether, and taking a purely analytical/algebraic approach.
>
> Thinking in N dimensions is very difficult (in fact I almost doubt
> whether anyone does such a thing -- are they really "seeing" in N
> dimensions or are they implicitly using the reduction techniques I
> mention above ?)
>
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
> elflord at panix dot com
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Joke
Date: 9 Mar 2001 20:54:39 GMT
On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:58:43 GMT, Chad Myers wrote:
>The fact remains that there are thousands of installed Linux and
>BSD systems which have an older version of SSH installed on them.
Yes, and they probably have older versions of all kinds of other
stuff too.
What are they supposed to do, send out spam ?
>There hasn't been a concerted effort to educate them to the faults
>of the "flawed" SSH1 protocol they're still using.
Security advisories are issued when there's a problem.
http://www.openssh.com/security.html
Tell us how ssh1 is "flawed". Can you name any protocol that is not
"flawed" in any way ?
Here's the quote from the page:
----
OpenSSH has the SSH 1 protocol deficiency that might make an insertion attack
difficult but possible. The CORE-SDI deattack mechanism is used to eliminate
the common case. Ways of solving this problem are being investigated, since the
SSH 1 protocol is not dead yet.
----
This "insertion attack" is extremely difficult to execute and requires the
attacker to be on the same network. In other words, it's only a problem if you
have an evil genius next door.
I maintain that it's one of the least "flawed" services
that runs on Linux.
>They fix the bugs, yes, I never said they didn't, but they're not
>letting people know that there are serious issues with the SSH1 protocol
>and that people should upgrade their older SSH software to the newer
>versions ASAP.
Again, what are they supposed to do, spam their users ?
Operating system vendors (INCLUDING open BSD) and independent groups
have mailing lists and security advisories as it is.
Is this not enough ?
>But it also _STILL_ supports SSH1, even though it's known to have
>serious and compromising flaws.
Your characterisation of the so-called "flaws" is so exaggerated that
I wonder if you're being outright dishonest and not merely stupid.
We've discussed what the "serious and comprimising" flaws are, and they
really aren't very "compromising" or serious at all.
ssh1 is *still* one of the most secure services you can run on a Linux box.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Alan Cox shaves his beard of for comic relief!
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:55:22 -0500
Renate Meijer wrote:
>
> Woof wrote:
>
> > I read an interesting quote from Alan Cox recently saying he was going
> > to shave off his beard that he has had since childhood off for Comic
> > Relief.
> > A BBC spokemans reporting on the story said "Who the fuck is Alan Cox?"
>
> Another spokesperson: "He's had a beard since CHILDHOOD? WOW!"
No.....WOOF
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Reefer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linus Torsvald's machine specification
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:58:50 GMT
"Woof" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I read an interesting article recently where Linus was quoted as saying
> he develops Linux on a 386 running Windows 3.1
> "I like the slow speed, it gives me chance to think" he says
Link?
------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:04:11 -0500
Reply-To: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"chrisv" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >When you buy a Red Hat or SuSE or Mandrake or whatever distribution
> >you desire...you ***GET*** ***THOUSANDS**** ***OF*** ****APPS****
> >with the distribution.
>
> Read the thread you dumbass. My point was it there's thousands of
> Windows apps on the shelves, and NONE (essentially) for Linux. This
> is GOOD for Windows, and BAD for Linux, understand? No amount of
> squiming is going make make this a bonus of being a Linux user.
>
Sure, and everyone of them needs to be paid for.
No amount of squirming makes that a bonus to being tied to Windows.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
