Linux-Advocacy Digest #754, Volume #32 Sun, 11 Mar 01 03:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: "diversity" (Rex Ballard)
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (Pete Goodwin)
Linux Advocacy Starts Here ("[EMAIL PROTECTED]")
Re: What does IQ measure? (Arthur Frain)
Re: Customising Wrap-Up Screen. (WAS: "It is now safe to shut off your computer")
("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Moore's Law, continued... (Rex Ballard)
Re: Dividing OS to groups. (J Sloan)
Re: Customising Wrap-Up Screen. (WAS: "It is now safe to shut off your (J Sloan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rex Ballard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "diversity"
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:56:06 -0500
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Actually,
This isn't so far fetched. There have been a number of projects that
have
resulted in bringing Linux to a number of people on the other side of
the
"Technology Gap". Linux was adopted by the Mexico City School system
which
put 100,000 computers into their public school system. In addition, 38
countries
participate in an NGO that has generated 10 million computers per year,
mostly
donated by companies who can no longer use the older computers due to
Microsoft
Upgrades.
Certainly it woudn't be hard to create a "Diversity Project" in which
Linux,
whith it's outstanding support for numerous different languages, could
serve
as a rallying point.
Ironically, this type of activity has triggered countermeasures by
Microsoft.
Milinda Gates' innoculation program comes with a few strings attached,
as do
several of Bill's offers to provide Microsoft software to school systems
who
reject Linux. Of course, Bill doesn't provide the hardware required.
Many schools around the world are using Linux because it's the most
cost-effective
way to teach children how to create a web-server, how the internet
works, and how
to browse the Internet.
Keep in mind that the "Internet Generation", those born between 1980 and
1990, grew up
with PCs in the home, were keyboarding in kindergarten, and were doing
term papers
on computers by the time they were in 5th grade. They were doing
research via
the web instead of in public libraries (a questionable practices given
that many
teens don't even know how to find information published prior to 1995 -
the earliest
web sites).
What would happen if you took on a project to get Linux into the
Projects? Maybe you
could get the "Crips" and "Bloods" to help you distribute PCs to the
communities in which
they operate. Wouldn't that be an interesting shift. Turn drug dealers
into web masters
and community leaders.
I'm not sure what the best approach would be, but if you could get 10
million Linux PCs into
each major community, you could completely transform the community.
This isn't unprecedented. The most dramatic example was the case of
Alphabet City in New York City. An area called "The Squats" was a bunch
of condemned buildings in which squatters,
mostly drug addicts and unemployed artists would sleep, usually during
the day.
When the web was in it's infancy, artists were very much in demand for
"web art". And
suddenly any artist with any talent wasn't unemployed. Many worked on
"pure cash" basis.
Before long, the squats were wired with generators, ethernet, and even
had connections
to a local restaurant with T1 Access.
Eventually, Rudy Juliani let the cooperatives living and doing business
there purchase
the property for what amounted to Back Taxes, an agreement to meet
health and building
safety codes, and an agreement to put their businesses "On the Books".
Today the Lower East Side, East Harlem, and Jersey City are thriving and
"now fashionable"
through Linux and the Internet. What communities in your area could you
transform
by giving a few hundred people Linux enabled PCs donated by
corporations.
"David L. Nicol" wrote:
>
> My university has just distributed a call for "diversiity projects."
>
> There is a modest amount of grant money available for projects that
> help nurture diversity, in any form. The eords "..but not limited
> to..." appear in the list of axes on which diversity is to be
> recognized.
>
> Since all of the university computer labs here run monopoly operating
> systems, I am imagining myself writing a proposal to increase diversity
> on the campus by esatblishing dual-boot machines in every lab.
>
> Thus this note to comp.os.linux.advocacy: Has anyone else done such
> a thing, proposing to increase Diversity by installing Linux, and how
> did it go? May I copy phrases from your documentation?
>
> --
> David Nicol 816.235.1187 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "The trouble with crazy people is,
> they are always trying to recruit" -- Justine
--
Rex Ballard
It Architect
http://www.open4success.com
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------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:57:46 GMT
In article <97urm0$3pr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > Shouldn't the OS decide that?
>
> Why shouldn't apps have their own drivers if they wish?
Because it's a waste of resources! If every app had its own graphics or
disk drivers or printer drivers we'd been knee deep in drivers and full
disks with no room for anything else!
> Windows lets apps use thier own drivers, so why don't you whinge on about
> that as well.
In terms of printing, I've yet to see such an app.
--
Pete
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:02:37 GMT
In article <98ajb4$4kq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Looks like an end to the rants about your bolloxed computer. Thank god...
8)
Whilst SuSE looks nicer, I see it still has some of the problems present
in Linux Mandrake. It tries to mangle my network cards by installing the
wrong ones on each device.
SuSE are aware of this problem - see
http://sdb.suse.de/en/sdb/html/ashley_dhcp-2nics.html
Unfortunately, their solution doesn't seem to work.
This is something that works flawlessly and immediately on Windows, yet
here we go again with Linux 2.4.
--
Pete
------------------------------
Reply-To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux Advocacy Starts Here
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:08:24 GMT
So you have decided to install Linux huh? Good choice.
www.psycholinux.com
------------------------------
From: Arthur Frain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: What does IQ measure?
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:31:37 -0800
Brock Hannibal wrote:
> That would sort of be like saying F=ma is not true
> because you've redefined a to be something other
> than acceleration.
Well, the fact is F=ma isn't true if dm/dt != 0 [1].
The assumptions you're making about IQ are in the same
league as assuming that dm/dt can always be ignored,
when in the Real World (tm) it can't be (rockets burning
fuel or space debris hitting the atmosphere for example).
> It makes a pretty good case though. When you want to know whether X
> and Y are related, a high correlation is good evidence.
Jeez - Hume pretty much settled this in what - the 18th
century? Catch up, please. Relation is not causation, and
correlation isn't even necessarily relation in any
meaningful sense. You can correlate the DJIA with
sunspots - doesn't mean there's any relation or causation
between the two (it's as likely that the DJIA causes
sunspot activity as the other way around unless you know
something specific about causality, which no theory of IQ
I've ever seen establishes).
Secondly, "high" is not a number, and it certainly isn't
1.0, meaning that in the best of all worlds for IQ
proponents there are other factors that need to be
considered. The truth is probably much worse than
that, since by "high" IQ proponents often mean > 0.
Arthur
[1] People with reasonable IQ's recall from HS physics
that F=dp/dt, where p=mv is momentum, so F= m*dv/dt + v*dm/dt.
OTOH, people who make superficial, imprecise arguments
only remember that F=ma, and forget that's a special case
(Newton's Law of Usenet Debate)
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Customising Wrap-Up Screen. (WAS: "It is now safe to shut off your
computer")
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:45:45 +1300
I prefer using:
init 6
when shutting down my computer. Even though it may take longer, I prefer a
more thorough shut down proceedure.
Matthew Gardiner
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:42:26 +0200
> <98ctvp$ar4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >"Bloody Viking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:98cbo4$75t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> I just got done customising the Windows 95 wrap-up screen, the "it's
now
> >safe
> >> to turn off your computer" screen. It now says:
> >>
> >> It's now safe to type "mode co80 and light off UNIX, the OS Bill Gates
> >hates!
> >> GNU's Not UNIX!!!
>
> Dunno if "mode co80" works anymore. :-)
>
> >>
> >> Thanks! That was after a few hours of quality coding time working on a
pet
> >> snail billpay proggie in C on Linux. For what it's worth, Linux IS UNIX
in
> >my
> >> book, it's a GNU freeware UNIX.
> >>
> >> Ah, the pleasure of having the OS of Big Iron on a PC. UNIX is the OS
of
> >Big
> >> Iron computing, and while we may enjoy it on our boxes, it will always
be
> >THE
> >> OS of Big Iron. How could anyone pass up the chance to play with an OS
> >like
> >> Linux, a PC freeware UNIX? Maybe some of us are hackers (in the good
sense
> >of
> >> the word) after all. (:
> >
> >Why won't you get Solaris? A true Unix, free (unless you got a monster
for a
> >workstation) and work on x86.
>
> What's wrong with Linux? Solaris is good, admittedly, but there's
> nothing wrong with Linux, and it's probably more readily available.
>
> There is one technical point -- and Linus (or someone else) might have
> fixed it by now: Linux tends to allocate memory it doesn't have and then
> do a kill -9 on a process when it faults a page and there aren't any
> more available (RAM is used up and swap is exhausted). Solaris doesn't
> have this problem, but the flip side is that one has to declare all
> swap space: if the workstation has 128M and a program wants 512M of
> memory, there'd better be 384M swap available (at least!) or the program's
> request will fail, regardless of whether the program actually needs all
> that memory (it might be using some sort of sparse addressing scheme,
> for example). Admittedly, one could go either way with this.
>
> (IIRC all this, anyway.)
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 33d:23h:03m actually running Linux.
> I was asleep at the switch the rest of the time.
------------------------------
From: Rex Ballard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Moore's Law, continued...
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 03:00:19 -0500
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Mike wrote:
>
> An interesting article in ZDNet news today, that fits in with a thread from
> a few weeks back.
>
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010305/tc/what_is_the_limit_to_moore_s_law
> __1.html
>
> We were discussing various power issues that arose from a talk by Patrick
> Gelsinger at ISSCC in early February. He predicted that in ten years,
> microprocessors would contain 1B transistors, run at 20-30GHz, and perform
> over 1T operations per second (and burn over 10kW). Gelsinger didn't offer
> the 10kW number as a prediction, but he showed slides during his talk that
> extrapolated the power of today's processors out to 2010, and showed power
> exceeding 10kW. The fundamental problem is that we don't have anything to
> replace silicon dioxide as a gate insulator in a MOS transistor, and its
> breakdown voltage limits the maximum operating voltage of a chip. As the
> voltage drops, the leakage current increases (and it gets worse on fast
> processes, where the MOS threshold voltage is reduced to give the transistor
> more drive when it's turned on).
This isn't such a new argument. When PCs reached 4 MIPS and 1 Megaplops
(Intel 80386), many predicted the end of Moore's law. In addition, many
predicted that the heat and power consumption of the Pentium 33 would
melt
the mother board.
Each time we thought we had "hit the wall", another breakthrough would
occurr.
Many high speed chips use internal switching voltages of less than 1
volt.
The use of parallel processing on the microcode level distributes the
heat,
and the use of Silicon Dioxide as an insulator has reduced cross-talk.
We've barely even begun to tap the potential of the Copper technology.
Laser
and X-Ray Lithography can further improve resolution. And we haven't
explored
the 3rd dimension in lithography effectively at all. Consider how much
real-estate
and latency is reduced through the use of SIMMS.
Multiprocessing is also getting more sophisticated. Most PCs have
intelligent
video controllers, and most servers have intelligent SCSI controllers or
SANs.
Another phenomenon which has occurred in the "Minicomputer" (which
includes
pentium servers or better), was the dramatic reduction in cost of
software.
Prior to the commercialization of UNIX, most systems were written in
assembler
which compiled to a specific machine. A simple operating system such as
RT-11,
CP/M, or MS-DOS could cost several million to develop and would be
obsolete within
2-4 years.
When the VAX 11/750 and VAX 11/780 were released, DEC introduced VMS.
But they
almost immediately found themselves in direct competition with BSD 4.0.
Before
long, the overall TCO of UNIX was so much lower than the overall total
cost of
VMS that most companies simply started putting UNIX on their PCs. The
only
exception was the Personal computer. Microsoft demanded
"all-or-nothing" contracts
and used a number of clever clauses to disguised the nature of their
extortion.
Ironically, a number of companies including Dell and Gateway got their
start
by selling UNIX machines (SCO or Interactive), and were eventually
driven
to accept an "All Microsoft" contract which, though it didn't explicitly
forbid them from selling UNIX systems (which would have been illegal),
restricted their advertizing, sales training, and support staff to
Microsoft
software to the exclusion of UNIX and later Linux.
The UNIX community has greated a huge spectrum of servers ranging from
80386
systems running SCO, BSD, and Linux systems all the way up to E-10K,
S-80,
and HP/9000-V series clusters capable of serving millions of users.
Competition hasn't hurt the Minicomputer market a bit. In fact, the
UNIX market has evolved into systems that are very powerful at very low
cost. Microsoft has documents that try to prove the superiour TCO of
Windows NT over UNIX (by comparing a 1000 user environment based on 3 NT
servers
vs a Sun E-450 and a Netware server). The comparisons are bogus (most
organizations
have found that they need 10 times more NT servers compared to UNIX
servers, and
the NT servers need more staff to manage it. Many CFOs and CEOs are now
killing
CTO and CIO requests for NT servers in favor of Linux and UNIX based
systems
to keep costs under control. They have a list of projects to be done
that
can be extensive, but when you're burning an amount equivalent to your
annual
earnings every quarter just to reboot NT boxes and you need another 5
percent
of revenue to purchase Windows 2000 hardware and software upgrades, the
folks
who report to the investors (the CFO and CEO) get very jumpy.
Much of modern software costs have consisted of advertizing costs. But
most
companies would rather spend money advertizing themselves than
advertizing
Microsoft. Linux puts a whole new spin on things. With over 1 billion
lines of code including production hardened components, UNIX/Linux
provides
massive leverage to Consulting firms who can get more done in less time,
and much better operations costs to companies who can fix the problem
rather than just keep rebooting the box. One recently discovered
security
leak had patches available within 30 minutes after the leak was
discovered.
Meanwhile Melissa has evolved into "Naket Wife" which completely trashes
your hard drive (after replicating to everyone else on your outlook
lists).
> In the article above, Gerald Marcyk of Intel points out that, "Intel
> researchers have already demonstrated good results for a new class of
> materials called high K gate dielectrics to replace silicon dioxide." The
> importance of this is that the supply voltage may not have to shrink for
> future devices.
Even if it these materials reduce the need for lower voltages, the
ability
to run at lower voltages lowers power consumption, heat, crosstalk, and
standing waves within the circuitry.
> This means more power lost during switching (where the power
> is proportional to the supply voltage squared), but less power lost to
> leakage (where the power is proportional to the supply voltage - not
> squared).
Copper chips have lower losses as well.
> This will become important within a few years, since the switching
> power is increasing at a lower rate than the power from leakage. Without a
> change, the leakage current will exceed the switching current before long.
> The result is that the power will increase, but will come in below the 10kW
> value that an extrapolation from today's processes would predict.
>
> And, it just might keep Moore's Law running for a few more years.
Keep in mind that Moore's law applies to more than just the chips. As
speeds
increase, drive densities increase, and so do positioning and
telecommunications
speeds. Most companies haven't even begun to explore the possibilities
of 1 Gbit
ethernet.
> -- Mike --
--
Rex Ballard
It Architect
http://www.open4success.com
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------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Dividing OS to groups.
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:01:22 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > > VMS based:
> > > VMS
> > > WinNT line.
> >
> > Uh,... I don't think vms is even remotely related to nt at all.
>
> Most of the design team from VMS worked on NT.>
Yes, Dave Cutler, who was a major contributor to vms,
was hired to help write windows nt.
I never liked vms.
jjs
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Customising Wrap-Up Screen. (WAS: "It is now safe to shut off your
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:05:13 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> "Roy Culley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <98e50i$l3f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > Exactly because of those features. Most (all?) unixes ship with those.
> >
> > Still waiting for these Solaris features that Linux doesn't have.
>
> Most of them are in the server arena, btw.
Question: Who holds the top specweb marks for
1-way, 2-way, 4-way and 8-way systems?
Hint: it's not solaris, it's Linux.
Did you know about the 512 Processor Linux supercomputer
that IBM is building? Sounds pretty scalable to me...
>
> Scalability is one, Linux, even 2.4, just can't compete with it.
On what basis do you make that bizzare claim?
>
> Stability is another, although arguable.
> Security, I really like to have ACLs.
ACLs have been available for Linux for years -
you'll have to find a different excuse.
>
> Support, YMMV, but I like Sun's support better than most of what Linux has
> to offer.
Suit yourself, I've had no problems with IBM Global Services -
jjs
------------------------------
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