Linux-Advocacy Digest #781, Volume #32 Tue, 13 Mar 01 03:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Need help setting up classroom for Linux ("GreyCloud")
Re: C# ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: There is money in Linux ("GreyCloud")
Re: There is money in Linux ("GreyCloud")
Re: There is money in Linux ("GreyCloud")
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Jeffrey Siegal)
Re: The Linux office, a possible future..... ("GreyCloud")
Re: There is money in Linux ("GreyCloud")
Re: Need help setting up classroom for Linux (J Sloan)
Re: Help us there! (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien?= LACROIX)
Re: Help us there! (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien?= LACROIX)
Re: The Linux office, a possible future..... ("GreyCloud")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need help setting up classroom for Linux
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:25:58 -0800
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:36:38 -0800, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I've read it mentioned in O'Reilley's book "Volume three" "X Window
> > System User's Guide" that a teacher could type on his computer
> > examples and have these examples show up on the students computers.
>
> > Not sure how this could be accomplished and maintain some security.
>
> The easiest way is to set up a VNC server on one computer and have the
> rest connect in "listen" mode. This mode allows any number of clients
> to connect to the same server. Actions taken by one will show up on
> all, and you don't have to allow the students to connect to your real
> desktop.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
Thank you much! But, this VNC server, is it distributed with linux or do we
have to get it from a download site?
Best I've heard yet!
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C#
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 01:40:23 -0600
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Well, some of the OS is written C++, that parts that are COM based,
> > such as DirectX, MAPI, and TAPI 3.0, but the majority is written in
> > C. Even so, I understand what you meant now, rather than what you
> > wrote. The way you wrote it, it looked lke you were saying that C++
> > ran Windows like a JVM runs Java byte-code.
>
> No, I was pointing out how ridiculous your claim was. C++ wasn't
> designed to run Windows and Java was designed to be interpretted.
>
> That both are possible is beside the point.
It's an entirely apples and oranges comparison.
It's like saying that English is optimized for singing songs that rhyme,
while the Khoisan clicking language is not. You could probably do it if you
flail around long enough, but that's not the point.
RISC instructions sets are optimized for pipelining, while CISC instruction
sets require much more work to pipeline correctly. Java byte-code is
optimized for byte by byte translation, while IL is optimized for batch
translation. Batch translating java byte-code (ala a typical JIT) is like
trying to stuff unoptimized CISC code into a heavily pipelined processor
(like the P4 or Itanium). It's slow because the translator has to work a
lot harder. If your byte-code is better optimized for batch translation,
then it can be much faster.
But don't take my word for it. Look at HotSpot. It does lots of things,
including (literally) changing the VM to work better for compiled code. One
of the things it does is remove handle access, one of the key memory
management features of Java, because the extra indirection is too costly.
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles//Networking/HotSpo
t/index.html
Since they are changing the way the VM works, and the way the objects are
laid out, and the way the byte-code is laid out, they are literally turning
the JVM into something that isn't Java, but translates the java bytecode
into this new format.
> > > Part of a .EXE file is Microsoft-centric code that is interpreted by
> > > the loader. Since you claim that these things are mutually exclusive,
> > > then do explain.
> >
> > The loader doesn't interpret this (in the language sense). The
> > header is strictly a data format used in the memory allocation of
> > the application. The header is not translated to code and executed,
> > which is what interpretation is.
>
> So they aren't mutually exclusive then?
Did you read what I wrote? There is no "interpretation" in the programming
language sense with the EXE headers. The EXE headers are simply a data
table and never translated to actual code.
Yes, interpretation and compiling are mutually exclusive, it's either one or
the other. You can switch between them in the same EXE, but one is very
different from the other.
> > > > C++ was designed to compile programs and run them on processors
> > > > without regard to the OS.
> > >
> > > Sounds a lot like Java.
> >
> > No, since Java *IS* the OS to a Java application. C++ only assumes that
> > there is file oriented I/O provided by the OS.
>
> And standard templates, and win32, and any other library that the C++
> compiler utilizes to package the code; that's all beside the point.
standard templates (I assume you mean STL) doesn't assume anything other
than file oriented I/O either. Win32 is not part of the C++ specification.
> C++ and Java actually look a lot alike from a language standpoint. In
> fact, they are pretty much identical if you leave out memory managment
> issues (and even with them in, it's not a far stretch because C++ at
> least hides that from you somewhat with objects).
>
> How can they look so similar, as languages, if they were designed in
> mutually exclusive ways?
You are confusing Java the language, with Java the byte-code. That's easy
to do, since Sun seems to confuse them a lot as well. For instance, they
claim that MS's JVM isn't Java, yet Sun's JVM is Java, but the JVM doesn't
execute Java the language at all, only byte codes.
Java byte code looks nothing like Java the language or C++.
> > > Java is a language. Most Java *compilers* compile into Java Byte
> > > Code, which is a form of assembly for a certain kind of processor.
> >
> > That doesn't exist.
>
> Au contrair: There are at least 2 different physical implementations,
> not counting the new MAJC from Sun.
They are designs only, not actual products you can buy.
> > It does replace Win32, but it's not intended to eradicate it.
> >
> > > Is it a replacement for http?
> >
> > No.
>
> So we won't see any .NET-only web sites in the future? Good.
You're confusing things again. SOAP uses HTTP for it's transport protocol.
That doesn't mean that the content can be useable by a non-.NET application,
although much of .NET will be used as server-side dynamic web page content,
which doesn't matter what the client is (assuming you generate code that is
browser neutral).
> > > Is it a replacement for C++, specifically VC++?
> >
> > No, it's not a replacement for any language, since any language can
> > target .NET (and there are already about a dozen that do, including
> > C++)
>
> Care to name any of the others?
Cobol, Eiffel, C++, VB, C#, CAML, Lisp, Perl, Python, Smalltalk, Rexx,
VBScript, JavaScript, Mercury, Oberon, Haskell, ML, Scheme, Oz, Pascal, APL,
even some iplementations of the Java language (not byte-code) are being
worked on.
If you want to read a good overview of .NET and what it means from someone
that is not a "MS Insider", read:
http://www.sdmagazine.com/articles/2000/0011/0011l/0011l.htm?topic=uml
It's by Bertrand Meyer, the inventor of Eiffel, and generally well respected
software engineering guru and author of the OOSC method (Object Oriented
Software Construction).
> > > Is it a replacement for DAO?
> >
> > ADO was the replacement for DAO, and that was years ago.
>
> Does it replace them?
It does for .NET applications what ADO does for non-.NET applcations, but
it's not "replacing" it, since non-.net isn't going way.
> > Look, it's not so hard. It's simply a platform independant binary
> > compatible framework, generic byte-code, byte-code translators and
> > various network and database services. You can mix and match any of
> > it that you like. You can even mix byte-code and normal code in the
> > same application.
>
> Sounds a lot like Sun's implementation of Java *platform* to me;
> albeit 8 years later.
There are similarities, but also differences.
> What is "generic byte-code"? Is it Intel-specific?
No.
> Why do you need byte-code translators? Are they analogous to a JVM?
They're analagous to the SmallTalk VM, but include security.
> Are they ditching ODBC to provide .NET database services?
ODBC has been dead for years. It's only used as a bare minimum
compatibility. OLE DB providers have been the thing to use for years (and
ADO sits on top of OLE DB, much like DAO sat on top of JET).
> Is this Win64, or has that been ditched?
No, it's platform independant. Which means that the translator is free to
generate 64 bit code from the bytecode if it wants to.
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: There is money in Linux
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:29:37 -0800
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> > I think the thing that has you confused is that Linux companies
> > are not "giving away" tech support, consulting, and custom
> > engineering services, and they are not "giving away" Linux
> > systems, as I can assure you after looking at the latest quote
> > from the vendor. Perhaps you were given some bogus info, but
> > you should have been able to figure that much out.
>
> Yet I get to hear about the odd Linux company whose stock is slipping and
> sliding downwards.
>
So is Microsofts stocks.... they around $56 / share now... back when they
started it was about $45 / share.
That was in 1982.
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: There is money in Linux
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:32:28 -0800
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> >
> > > I think the thing that has you confused is that Linux companies
> > > are not "giving away" tech support, consulting, and custom
> > > engineering services, and they are not "giving away" Linux
> > > systems, as I can assure you after looking at the latest quote
> > > from the vendor. Perhaps you were given some bogus info, but
> > > you should have been able to figure that much out.
> >
> > Yet I get to hear about the odd Linux company whose stock is slipping
and
> > sliding downwards.
>
> Yes, along with Sun and others...
>
> However, Linux will survive regardless of the stock market.
>
> jjs
>
Especially if a depression hits us. At least Linux will be handy to get if
you can afford your isp connection.
I got out last march in 2000! If the NASDAQ goes no lower than 1789 and
stays there for a couple of weeks,
then hop back in! It will be a slow riser. If it goes below 1789, like
down to 1500 or below. Well,...
it'll be a few years of hard luck for all of us.
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: There is money in Linux
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:36:09 -0800
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 02:46:57 GMT, Brent R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Last week marked a milestone. At every Border's and Barnes and Noble
> >I've ever been too (including the one in downtown Boston), I had never
> >seen someone browsing the computer section.
>
> The B&N in Manchester (NH) always seems to have a couple of people
> browsing around in the computer section.
>
>
> >Personally, I'm like a kid at a candy store in that section, but I've
> >always wondered how O'Reilly-and-Que-type businesses stay in business.
>
> There's more of us than you think <g>.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
I have to grab the "just in for linux" books at our large Barnes & Noble the
day it gets in.
The Linux shelf, which is about 50 ft. in length with 5 vertical tiers, is
mostly empty.
Always see the clerk putting in more books. Even the Hp-ux and Solaris
books go fast.
I don't even go there on the weekends as its so crowded. I go in on a
monday and
manage to get a toe in to look.
------------------------------
From: Jeffrey Siegal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:42:46 -0800
Les Mikesell wrote:
> What other capability does it add to perl over the Artistic License -
> besides allowing GPL proponents to falsely claim it as an
> example of successful use of the GPL?
It means the ability to fork a GPL-only version, if necessary, is
preserved. So if close-source extensions to or fragmentation of Perl
were to become a significant problem, the community could back away from
the permissive-distribution license and focus on a GPL-only version
instead.
This has the secondary effect of reassuring people who concerned about
embrace-and-extend, proprietary fragmentation and other such issues (in
other words, people who prefer to work on, and use, GPLed software) that
they are unlikely to develop into a major problem with Perl.
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Linux office, a possible future.....
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:50:57 -0800
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:98jkh5$6hk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In article <98h0t5$hh3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> >> > Where is it? Where? Where?
> >>
> >> Everywhere, you tool.
>
> > Where? I see it not?
>
> Thats because you are quite obviously blind.
>
> > Everywhere I look, I see Windows, Windows and yet more Windows.
>
> Neat. You must work in a windows dominated market. I work with
information technlogy
> and suchness. It is dominated by unix.
>
> >> Have you ever worked in a windows based local IT department? The
difference with
> >> linux bugs is that they actually get FIXED. I cant tell you how many
times ive
> >> heard "oh, thats just a windows thing" when the machine I use to talk
to the
> >> billing database at work does something completely retarded. Then they
expect
> >> me to just live with it.
>
> >> > Can you imagine the network traffic?
> >>
> >> You dont know what youre talking about. The network on which my
solaris workstation
> >> resides contains tens of thousands of nodes. Theres alot of traffic,
but thats
> >> why god invented network engineers.
>
> > Don't I? In Digital we had one of the biggest private networks in the
> > world. 20,000 - 50,000 nodes at least, and still growing when I left.
>
> Thats a medium sized network in todays world.
>
> >> > I'm not sure I'd like a myseterious research group to hijack my
machine
> >> > and use it for their purposes!
> >>
> >> It happens to windows machines all the time. The fact that you think
it doesnt
> >> happen leads me to believe that at one time or another its happened to
yours.
>
> > But you can't prove that one way or the other, now can you?
>
> Sure, all you need to do is read microsoft press releases.
>
> >> The last severe security breach I had with my linux system here was
about a year
> >> and a half ago, when I had a severely retarded moment and left
anonymous FTP on
> >> and a certian directory writable.
>
> > And what did they do with that directory? Take over your machine, did
> > they? All that from a writable directory?
>
> No, you intellectual turd. They uploaded warez and used my machine as a
> hop-site for about 12 hours before I discovered it. I deleted their
stuff, checked
> tripwire, and fixed the problem in about 10 seconds.
>
> > If you want a security breach, try the Chaos Computer club of Holland,
> > and how far they reached inside Digital. Then later, the Trojan horse
> > that entered OpenVMS until it got descovered and they had to pull back
> > the sources to eliminate it.
>
> Thats very nice, but has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
>
LOL!!! I remember that mess over there! Some bozo never changed his
password for months,
and finally it got compromised. The sysadmin had to teach classes on
security for over a year
after the fact for punishment!
> >> > Ah yes... here we go. Centralised management. That has been tried
before.
> >> > I saw it at Digital. They had clusters, they had shared disks... it
> >> > worked, after a fashion.
> >>
> >> Windows networks all over the world (including the one I work with
peripherally)
> >> do this RIGHT NOW, pete. In fact, the central office has absolute
control over
> >> every last one of the approximately 9,000 windows machines on its
entire network.
>
> > What software are they running to do this?
>
> I am not at liberty to say, but I can say that it is developed by
microsoft, and
> that it actually does its job incredibly well.
>
> >> > If you're talking about making computers be a network device you need
one
> >> > thing first. A fast reliable network. That can happen in the office.
> >>
> >> Its happened everywhere already. Dont use the idiocy in your own
office as
> >> a guide, pete. The rest of the world is way ahead of you.
>
> > Everywhere? Where is that? In your part of the world? You think that my
> > office is "idiocy" - funny that, you must live in a strange world.
> > Everywhere I go, my version of the "office" is the norm, even the ones
> > I've seen and worked in America.
>
> When was the last time you worked in america? I havent seen less than
100base
> in this country in at LEAST a year. I'm not saying that it doesnt exist,
im saying
> that right now it is the minority.
>
> >> We arent talking about home machines, nitwit.
>
> > Why not, pillock?
>
> Read the thread, you goddamned turnip. Its not part of the question at
hand
> or the subject mattter.
>
> > What's the biggest market, o cretin? The Office? Or the home?
>
> You appear to not even understand what 'subject' means.
>
> >> > As for UNIX being able to do, why aren't they doing it, why aren't
they
> >> > the leading force on the desktop?
> >>
> >> Because things like that dont happen instantaniously, you freak. UNIX
hadnt even
> >> been marketed for the home network until redhat started doing it a
couple of years
> >> ago. And before that there WERENT any home networks.
>
> > They had their chance and they sat back and did nowt.
>
> They didnt have a chance, you penis. You tit. You vaginal sore. You
> rectal wart.
>
> > What makes you
> > think they can do it now, strange one?
>
> Well, the fact that they appear to be doing just that at the moment is
quite a
> tip off, old chap.
>
> >> > What's the UNIX equivalent of Corel Draw?
> >>
> >> Oh dear pete, why on earth are you using corel draw in the first place?
>
> > I'm not. I use Xara X instead.
>
> Then what the hell was your point?
>
> >> How exactly is it not quite there? Its huge, bloated, buggy, and reads
word
> >> documents, just like microsoft word. Its an excellent clone.
>
> > It's a much weaker clone. Can it handle additional fonts?
>
> Uhhh...yes, actually it can. I'm doing it right now.
>
> > Nope. Can it
> > handle the system printer?
>
> Uhhh...I just printed via samba to a windows network printer from this
here
> machine, FROM STAROFFICE, and it worked just fine.
>
> > Nope. Oh dear, Microsoft Word can!
>
> You're wrong about so much, pete. I suspect that the simple fact is that
> youre too stupid to figure these things out, and further, too stupid to
even
> realize that youre really incredibly dumb.
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
> --
> "come to ZomZom's (a place to eat) like it was built in one day;
> you can watch the humans try to run"
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: There is money in Linux
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:40:28 -0800
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 02:46:57 GMT, Brent R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Last week marked a milestone. At every Border's and Barnes and Noble
> >I've ever been too (including the one in downtown Boston), I had never
> >seen someone browsing the computer section.
>
> The B&N in Manchester (NH) always seems to have a couple of people
> browsing around in the computer section.
>
>
> >Personally, I'm like a kid at a candy store in that section, but I've
> >always wondered how O'Reilly-and-Que-type businesses stay in business.
>
> There's more of us than you think <g>.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
Our B&N is really moving the linux books. They have a 50 ft. long
section with 5 tiers.
Most of the time I'm lucky to get a toe in to look and if I find a book that
I like I'd better buy
it before its gone the next day. Even the HP-UX & Solaris books sell fast
here, as this
community is heavy in Unix & Linux people.
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need help setting up classroom for Linux
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:50:09 GMT
GreyCloud wrote:
> Thank you much! But, this VNC server, is it distributed with linux or do we
> have to get it from a download site?
Well it came with my Red Hat 7.0 CDs....
haven't had time to play with it though...
jjs
------------------------------
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien?= LACROIX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: al.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Help us there!
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:50:59 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gert Elstermann a écrit :
>
> Sébastien LACROIX wrote:
> >
> > Help us at this freevote sites
> >
> It is the wrong way to 'vote' for or against something which is under
> jurisdiction. The right way is to improve Linux to become a comfortable
> desktop OS for everyday and everyone's use at the time when Windows 2000
> becomes obsolete so that XP is no longer the future...
>
> HTH - Gert Elstermann.
Well, I agree your way is good. But I think that 'voting' there is an
other way to contribute to the success of what we like. Anyway, this
site did not ask you if it would be a good thing to exist... it IS
THERE! So if we do not 'vote' pro the breakup, M$ supporters will take
an advantage of it.
Magistrate who fight M$ might be less effective if they have the
feeling to do it for nuts. People opinion is not nuts!
How long has it been under juridiction? Should I trust the US
juridiction system without doing any thing? Most of us cannot help
improving Linux, but we can all vote there!
We're watching too many American moovies where justice is always
having the last word, and it is almost sanctified. Then you all trust
in justice... trust in justice... this dear benevolent justice...
=> A revolution is not promoted by justice but by people opinion! I
think that Linux versus M$ is a little revolution.
And at last, it's also for the fun of it! I'm in good mood when this
'vote' is pro the M$ breakup, that's all!
--
Sébastien LACROIX
To email me just remove the 'z' and 'w' from my email address
Pour me répondre, enlevez les z et les w de mon adresse
__
/ / __ _ _ _ _ __ __ -o)
/ /__ / / / \// //_// \ \/ / / \
/____/ /_/ /_/\/ /___/ /_/\_\ _\_v
The choice of the GNU generation.^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sign The Linux Driver Petition:
http://www.libralinux.com/petition.french.html
------------------------------
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien?= LACROIX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help us there!
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:50:42 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Nelson a écrit :
>
> GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Gert Elstermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Sébastien LACROIX wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Help us at this freevote sites
> >> >
> >> It is the wrong way to 'vote' for or against something which is under
> >> jurisdiction. The right way is to improve Linux to become a comfortable
> >> desktop OS for everyday and everyone's use at the time when Windows 2000
> >> becomes obsolete so that XP is no longer the future...
> >>
> >> HTH - Gert Elstermann.
>
> > Agreed!
>
> ...and the original poster may want to practice what he preaches, since his
> headers show:
>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [fr] (WinNT; U)
>
> Walk the walk...and all that...
Anyway, it's better than using M$ Outlook isn't it?
I've got Linux at home and that's all I can do now => waiting for my
developement system to provide its GUI for Linux, then only, I will be
able to use Linux on my desktop. (hope it will happen one day)
--
Sébastien LACROIX
To email me just remove the 'z' and 'w' from my email address
Pour me répondre, enlevez les z et les w de mon adresse
__
/ / __ _ _ _ _ __ __ -o)
/ /__ / / / \// //_// \ \/ / / \
/____/ /_/ /_/\/ /___/ /_/\_\ _\_v
The choice of the GNU generation.^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sign The Linux Driver Petition:
http://www.libralinux.com/petition.french.html
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Linux office, a possible future.....
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:03:40 -0800
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> > What do you mean "worked, after a fashion"? DEC had clusters working
long
> > before MS even
> > had thought about it. The centralized admin of users and networks
worked
> > great!
>
> You ever tried using a satellite system of a VAX cluster? Which is
> faster, a satellite or a standalone workstation?
>
> > And the systems didn't break either!
>
> Oh they stayed up for long periods, but they had their fair share of
> outages too.
>
> > DEC had equipment that was designed for lans or wans
> > before 1990.
>
> Yes I know, I used to work for them.
>
> > And, the nice thing there weren't any crashes.
>
> Oh yes there were!
Did you work for the Govment? Before 1993, there really wasn't a small
computer system that could do these jobs. NASA used DEC equipment for
years. So has the Dept of the Navy and other government agencies.
I had a budget to use to acquire computer equipment and was held accountable
for it too!
I really never cared for how vms worked, but their compilers were the best!
Industry now recognizes
VAX Fortran as the best there is. We had a network of VAXes for the nuclear
dept. of the Navy and not once
have I ever seen a log of a system crash. Network crashes were caused by
people doing stupid things, like
yanking on their lines to move their terminal to another desk or the lines
got pinched by a shoved file cabinet.
The O/S stayed up! I almost approved of a Sun system back then, but their
fortran processor was weak then.
You know you've got the right system when things run smoothly and everybody
is happy or not complaining.
Especially when the boss gives you a raise in pay.
There may have been crashes, but not where I worked... just never heard of
one.
> --
> Pete
> All your no fly zone are belong to us
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