Linux-Advocacy Digest #752, Volume #33 Sat, 21 Apr 01 10:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Perl and Tcl/Tk: How important are they? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Red Hat has become scary? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Red Hat has become scary? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Red Hat has become scary? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Ctrl-Alt-Windows (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested! (Donn Miller)
Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested! (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Why do Win advocates suck? Part 1 ("MH")
Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM (Donn Miller)
Re: What to do with Bill Clinton (was Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)) (Ace
Agincourt)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Perl and Tcl/Tk: How important are they?
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:34:45 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Michael Vester wrote:
> > >
> > > "Bryant Charleston, MCSE" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey folks,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a Linux newbie and I'm reading through a few books and practicing
> > > > hands-on to learn Linux -- then Unix. A couple of the books spend quite a
> > > > bit of time addressing scripting languages like Perl and Tcl/Tk. As a newbie
> > > > to Linux, I'd like to get some feedback on how important these (or any
> > > > other) scripting languages are in the real world.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Should I skip these and continue to learn and master the basic CLI
> > > > commands FIRST, or learn them along w/the CLI?
> > >
> > > Do you mean the shell? There are several included with every Linux
> > > distribution.
> > >
> > > > 2) Which of these scripting languages are the most important?
> > >
> > > Depends on what you are doing. I invested time in learning Perl. It can do
> > > anything the shell and much, much more. Also, Perl is on just about every
> > > Unix/Linux system out there. Start at www.cpan.org
> >
> > Not in the commercial world. Also, there is a version problem with perl.
> > I can't remember where the cutoff is, but there's a backwards compatibility
> > problem (perl 4.x vs perl 5.x ???)
> >
> > In any event, anywhere you go, basic shell scripts are the foundation level
> > (all of your system initialization is done in bourne-shell scripts).
> >
> > Therefore, learning shell scripting is a higher priority than perl scripting.
> >
> > in fact, I'm a *HIGHLY* paid, high-responsibility admin, and I've only
> > had to deal with perl once, and never really did get the hang of it.
> >
> > Everywhere else, perl just adds confusion, because it's no universally known.
> > Which leads to a chicken-and-the-egg problem.
> >
>
> perl does take a bit of getting used to, but it can be kind of handy.
I don't doubt it.
I'm just saying that you can work on Unix systems for DECADES without ever
needing it.
I've been using Unix since 1983. Only touched perl for a grand total of
less than a week in that entire time.
> For example, if you have deal with windows machines and macs, perl is
> very good for messing with text formats to pass between the machines.
That's only because Windows and Macs are so utterly deficient of
quality file-manipulation tools in the first place
>
> --
> http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat has become scary?
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:37:50 -0400
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> <snype>
> >
> > Provide a staging area for Chinese and/or Russian forces and weaponry,
> > in the same way that England was such for our invasion of Normandy.
> >
> > Remember, never set policy based on your (wrong) ideas of your enemies'
> > intentions... instead, base your policy to account for all of their
> > capabilities.
>
>
> Its all about economics, first suck them in, create alliances, then, at
> there most vulnerable point, squish, you've got Cuba by the balls, they
> are so dependent on you that they will do anything to keep the gravy
> train running.
That is true. The *BEST* way to get rid of Castro would be to flood
the Island with Americans and all of our tourist DOLLARS (which is
the de facto currency down there already) and our American products.
Castro will keel over in a few years, and he has built up such a
strong personality cult, it's going to create an incredible power-vacuum
when he's no longer around.
At that time, I expect to see a lot of Cuban nationals go home and see
if they can change the government.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
> --
> I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
>
> If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
>
> Running SuSE Linux 7.1
>
> The best of German engineering, now in software form
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat has become scary?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:38:45 +1200
> > Names of dictators that killed thousands, yet, not one word from the US:
> >
> > Pol Pot
> > Alberto Penche
>
> I think you mean Alberto Pinochet
>
> > Stalin
>
> Actually, a lot of anti-Communists protested Stalin and Pol Pot.
>
> The only people apologizing for those two were Pol Pot and Stalin.
>
> On the other hand, the pro-Communists in the US got equally upset
> about Pinochet
Just as an update, the successor to Stalin denounced all his "evil" he
did to the Soviet Union, although the successor was no better, at least
the successor didn't go onto the same killing rampage.
As for Alberto Pinochet, he was a dictator for Chile, he was
conservative-right wing.
One leader that did do a good job was General Tito of Yugoslavia, which
kept the country together for 50 years. Sent shit stirrers to
"Re-education camps", constant peace, now we have the west poking their
noses into their affairs, and now look what has happened, now the
Albanian rebels are stirring shit in Macedonia, had General Tito been
alive he would have rolled in the tanks, blown the shit out of the shit
stirrers, all finished in time for dinner at 18:00.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat has become scary?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:41:49 +1200
> > Its all about economics, first suck them in, create alliances, then, at
> > there most vulnerable point, squish, you've got Cuba by the balls, they
> > are so dependent on you that they will do anything to keep the gravy
> > train running.
>
> That is true. The *BEST* way to get rid of Castro would be to flood
> the Island with Americans and all of our tourist DOLLARS (which is
> the de facto currency down there already) and our American products.
>
> Castro will keel over in a few years, and he has built up such a
> strong personality cult, it's going to create an incredible power-vacuum
> when he's no longer around.
>
> At that time, I expect to see a lot of Cuban nationals go home and see
> if they can change the government.
Once that has been done, hand the issue over to the UN, then at least
the US can say "hey, not our fault", the through the UN they can place a
new government.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:51:08 +1200
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> >
> > > Detesting homosexuality is NOT the same as fear.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Why do you detest it?
>
> What's NOT to detest about it?
I personally don't care if someone is homosexual or hetrosexual. People
who sit around all day wondering/concerned whether person vxy is a
homosexual should get their head examined. I have better things to be
concerned about. I have friends who are gay, and what they do with
their "partners" is none of my business. I think it is about time
people stopped thinking that they should be the one standing the high
ground, and get down to earth and started respecting people for who they
are, not what they are. The type of bigotry you are demonstrating Aaron
is nothing to be proud of.
Matthew gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Ctrl-Alt-Windows
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:55:56 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I'm damn sick of seeing those stupid "Windows" keys on
> > every frikkin' keyboard I own, including on my
> > laptop.
> >
> > Where can I get tiny penguin stickers to place
> > over that eye-sore?
>
> http://www.affordablecomputers.com/flypage.php3?part=2454
Nice keyboard, but, dang, it's not ergonomic! I'm spoiled
by my Kensiko keyboard. Thanks Ayende!
Chris
--
"Where do you want to glow today?"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: 21 Apr 2001 12:58:20 GMT
In article <wQ8E6.632$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, AG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Windows. Then, as groups of users become less and less dependent on
> > > M$-only software, you can move some of them over to Linux boxes
> > FreeBSD, actually.
> Ummm, why not VMS?
On the *desktop*?
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:04:09 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested!
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> Linux advocate running Windows 98. If you talk the talk, walk the walk,
> other wise keep ya trap shut.
See, that's part of the problem. There's a glut of Windows jobs in my
area. Dammit, I wish there were more Linux and FreeBSD jobs in the
world. I think universities should start installing FreeBSD and Linux
machines in their computer labs. Just add a few machines that are
running unix, but don't replace them all. I'd want to use those
machines. We've got to get people off of their Windows-addiction,
because the Windows hologram has been firmly stamped into their brains
(much like George Orwell's novel).
Microsoft is indeed the "big brother" you have been hearing about in
"1984". Ironicaly, Windows 1.0 was close to completion in 1984. I
wouldn't be too surprised to hear that Microsoft's next move is to stamp
some kind of activation code into Windows' customers brains. That way,
we'd all be walking mindless druids saying stupid things like "Bill
Gates is a brilliant computer scientist" (as if there aren't enough
Microsoft shills doing that as it is now).
> Have you heard of net-etiquette? by posting in HTML is stops people who
> don't have HTML compat. news readers, from reading the post.
Yeah, really. Why do you need HTML to read usenet postings anyways?
The only thing it's good for is hi-liting a few words here and there,
and that's pretty much it. If you need to show someone html, provide a
link to a personal web page, or something.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested!
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:09:15 +1200
Donn Miller wrote:
>
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> > Linux advocate running Windows 98. If you talk the talk, walk the walk,
> > other wise keep ya trap shut.
>
> See, that's part of the problem. There's a glut of Windows jobs in my
> area. Dammit, I wish there were more Linux and FreeBSD jobs in the
> world. I think universities should start installing FreeBSD and Linux
> machines in their computer labs. Just add a few machines that are
> running unix, but don't replace them all. I'd want to use those
> machines. We've got to get people off of their Windows-addiction,
> because the Windows hologram has been firmly stamped into their brains
> (much like George Orwell's novel).
>
> Microsoft is indeed the "big brother" you have been hearing about in
> "1984". Ironicaly, Windows 1.0 was close to completion in 1984. I
> wouldn't be too surprised to hear that Microsoft's next move is to stamp
> some kind of activation code into Windows' customers brains. That way,
> we'd all be walking mindless druids saying stupid things like "Bill
> Gates is a brilliant computer scientist" (as if there aren't enough
> Microsoft shills doing that as it is now).
There are tonnes of UNIX and Linux Jobs in New Zealand. Why not go for
one? Got Novell Netware experience, there are demand for people with
skills in that area too.
It is also quite interesting at the sales figures of Solnet (SUN
Subsiderary operated by a local reseller) compared to the sales of
Microsoft NZ.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why do Win advocates suck? Part 1
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:11:59 GMT
"pookoopookoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:lv9E6.44884
>For a regular joe user, Linux is useless. It's great for
> programmers, but that's about all. If you want to get some R&R or do any
> kind of design-related jobbie, linux is sort of a dead end. Also, I'm not
> sure why they call win98 bloatware, when my Mandrake 7.2 install took up
> almost a gig and a half.
Amen. But it won't fly. You're in the company of zealots.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:56:53 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I am just so tired of XEmacs. It crashes all the time.
Well, geez. I've been compiling beta versions of XEmacs from source,
and it almost never crashes. Tried compiling it yourself? I've just
compiled 21.5 from source yesterday, it it seems pretty stable.
> > It does not have drag
> > and drop support.
Don't know if this is true or not.
> > Lisp is next to impossible to learn. I have to type basillions
> > of stupid keystrokes to get the most trivial tasks accomplished. My left
> > wrist is hurting from hitting C- and ESC- keys constantly. I have recently
> > discovered VIM, a great programmers' editor (www.vim.org). All keystrokes are
> > easy and fast, everything works, it creates backup files and so on. I am
> > switching.
Great. Hey, guess what: you're running XEmacs. There's a menu for
almost every command. Also, I like the new feature that's in the
development versions, where you have tabs for each file you have open.
That's pretty nice. Or, how about the feature where it re-formats your
mangled text (prob. from textmodes)? Or, what about the feature where
you can read man pages, and link to other manpages? Dammit, I hate
that. That textmode feature is great for re-formatting text that is
badly mangled from Outlook Express.
> > rm -rf /usr/local/lib/xemacs /usr/local/bin/xemacs .emacs `find / -name \*emacs\*`
Actually, a better way is to do
find /usr/local -name '*xemacs*' | xargs rm -rf
I've got both XEmacs and Vim, and I like both. Both work very well as a
programming front-end.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Ace Agincourt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: What to do with Bill Clinton (was Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism))
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:11:08 +0100
Hi Aaron,
On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:02:49 -0400,
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
put fingers to keyboard and tapped away writing:
? Ace Agincourt wrote:
? >
? > Hi Aaron,
? >
? > On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:22:12 -0400,
? > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
? > put fingers to keyboard and tapped away writing:
? >
? > ? Ace Agincourt wrote:
? > ? >
? > ? > Hi Don,
? > ? >
? > ? > On 21 Apr 2001 01:26:52 GMT,
? > ? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
? > ? > put fingers to keyboard and tapped away writing:
? > ? >
? > ? > ? On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:11:05 +0100, Ace Agincourt wrote:
? > ? > ? > Hi Roberto,
? > ? > ?
? > ? > ? > Serbia was at war with the Kosovas. Are you claiming that the mass
? > ? > ? > murders did not occur.
? > ? > ?
? > ? > ? They are mass *murders* only if they are war *crimes*, ie they are
? > ? > ? unlawful even in the context of war. Are you claiming the mass murders
? > ? > ? were not war crimes ?
? > ? >
? > ? > Should, then, Lord Walworth have been tried for war crimes after he
? > ? > murdered Wat Tyler? Who would have intervened in England's private
? > ? > affairs?
? > ? >
? > ? > ?
? > ? > ? > Also, Hitler went to war against the Jews.
? > ? > ? > Are you a holocaust denier?
? > ? > ?
? > ? > ? The NAZIs were tried as war *criminals*, meaning their killings were found
? > ? > ? to be unlwaful.
? > ? >
? > ? > Under whose authority? Should Bill Clinton be forced to stand trial
? > ? > for his war crimes: the bombing of a Sudanese Pharmaceutical plant and
? > ?
? > ? Yes.
? > ?
? > ? He should also be put on trial for Treason.
? > ?
? > ? And sentanced to hanging by his testicles.
? >
? > Don't you think hanging by testicles is too good for him?
?
?
? That depends on whether you tie a noose around his testicles...or use
? 300-pound test fishing line, stitched THROUGH his testicles.
Wouldn't the line just pull through, leaving him writhing on the floor
in agony until he dies?
I think the place for his trial would be China. There they have some
very ingenious ways to execute, where the execution process takes
days, even weeks. Making him wear the wire jacket may be appropriate.
The Wire Jacket and Death by a Thousand Cuts
==========================================================
Wire is wrapped tightly around the naked body
Each day the executioner cuts off a bit of flesh protruding between
bits of wire
Apart from the cuts, the condemned is cared for (fed and watered)
A skilled executioner can make the execution last over a month
The condemned can last until 90% of his skin has been removed
The condemned doesn't bleed to death because the tight wire prevents
excessive blood loss
Each cut adds to the agony of the condemned
?
?
?
? >
? > ?
? > ?
? > ? > the associated maimings, and the bombing of an Afghan youth training
? > ? > centre and its associated murders?
? > ? >
? > ? > Best wishes, Ace.
? > ? >
? > ? > ====================
? > ? >
? > ? > This story shall the good man teach his son;
? > ? > And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
? > ? > From this day to the ending of the world.
? >
? > Best wishes, Ace.
? >
? > ====================
? >
? > This story shall the good man teach his son;
? > And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
? > From this day to the ending of the world.
Best wishes, Ace.
====================
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
>From this day to the ending of the world.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
