Linux-Advocacy Digest #594, Volume #34 Fri, 18 May 01 12:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Anecdote: MS' grip loosening (Neil Cerutti)
Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux posts #1 TPC-H result (W2K still better) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Beos vs Linux (Dan Pidcock)
Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (Dan Pidcock)
Re: Linux posts #1 TPC-H result (W2K still better) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Beos vs Linux (Neil Cerutti)
Re: Solaris 8 vs 7/2.x.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (The Danimal)
Re: Linux takes Hollywood by storm! (.)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (.)
Re: Anecdote: MS' grip loosening (Bob Hauck)
Re: Beos vs Linux (quux111)
Re: bank switches from using NT 4 (Bob Hauck)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (The Danimal)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Donn Miller)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Neil Cerutti)
Subject: Re: Anecdote: MS' grip loosening
Date: 18 May 2001 14:18:15 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GreyCloud posted:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2001 02:30:23 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I don't have any company equipment, I am self employed.
>>
>> Point is Tivoli is spyware.
>>
>> flatfish
>
>What is Tivoli??
I think it's a fancy egg-noodle pasta. It's blue-green and shaped
like tiny Beowulf clusters.
--
Neil Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:26:08 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> What can you do when something similar happens in windows? What if
> The C: drive is filled up? Can you move some application's files to
> the D: drive? No, many programs will record in the registry that the
> files are in drive "C:". Moving them to "D:" would thus break it.
> Now, Windows do not have symbolic links. What can you do? Re-install
> the applications?
I've found that the easiest thing to do is to take another HD, and mount it
as \Program Files, then copy anything to it.
Nothing breaks.
You can also create junctions, which are like symbolic links, but for
directories (only? I'll have to check on that)
Here is the tool that create junctions
http://www.tmk.com/ftp/decus-sig-tapes/vlt00a/vmslt00a/nt/misc.htm
Also has couple other of nice utilities.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux posts #1 TPC-H result (W2K still better)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:36:57 +0200
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9e395e$jj1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9e2ni2$137$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
> <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9e1mjh$lor$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > Windows comes with WSH, which come with VBS & JS support. You can add
> >> > Perl & Python from activestate.com (free). C#, VB.NET comes with .NET
> >> > beta, and there are also other languages that you can hook there, I
> >> > believe.
> >>
> >> Sounds better than it was, though with UNIX, you can use an arbitrary
> >> executable as the interpreter.
> >
> > You can do the same in Windows, what is your point?
>
> Can you or can't you? You said "you believe" there are other languages
> you can hook in. Either you can use an arbitrary executable[*] or not.
I believe that there are other languages that can hock up to WSH, yes.
You can't hock up just any executable to WSH, no.
You can set up any executable as the interpreter if you don't go via WSH.
> Not in UNIX, an executable may be an interpreted program in this
> instance.
Yes, I know. You can set it up in the same way on windows.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Pidcock)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.be.advocacy
Subject: Re: Beos vs Linux
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:41:27 GMT
On Fri, 18 May 2001 15:24:44 +0100, "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> Sounds like thrashing but gpm & xosview tell me that no swap is being
>
>gpm? are you sure: that's a program which gives you a console mouse.
kpm is what I should have put.
>> used so that can't be the case. While thinking about memory there is
>> another problem with Linux: I upgraded from 64MB to
>> 192MB and the tools (free, top) still think I have 64MB. There is a
>> fix mentioned in SDB to put a mem line in /etc/init.conf (IIRC) but that
>> hasn't worked.
>
>The file is /etc/lilo.conf, and just putting the line in there isn't
>enough. You need to re run lilo, ie
>
>/sbin/lilo
>
>as root. Or when the LILO: prompt comes up type append="mem=192M" (IIRC)
I'm not using lilo from the MBR as my linux loader. I launch it from
the win9x startup menu to load the linuz image. I'll see if I can get
it working in my setup...
>> I started off using netscape 4.7 for browsing but it
>> is really just a pile of pants. Uses up loads of memory, takes ages to
>> launch, as soon as I have used it for about 10 minutes and have over
>> about 6 windows it grinds to a halt and I have to kill it.
>
>It can be a pain, but its OK most of the time I find.
I hate it with a vengeance. Just as I have got all the web pages I
want to read off-line Netscape hangs and I can't see any of them
>> I don't have gnome wm, but tried mwm, fvwm, fvwm2, afterstep and
>> icewm. Of all these I find icewm nicest with the launcher/task bar.
>
>Ha! You renounce the One True Window Manager? (fvwm2)
Well call me a windows softy but I like to have a task bar & launcher.
The standard dock in fvwm2 didn't have as much stuff as I liked and I
didn't want to be bothered with configuring it at first.
>> This however brings me to another bugbear with linux: each window
>> manager seems to have it's own standard for application menus, themes
>> and the like. It's just such a pain configuring each one to be nice &
>> have all my useful apps on the menus.
>
>It may suprise you to know that not everyone has an applications menu,
>and some of us wouldn't want one forced on us.
Yeah sure each to their own. But even fvwm, twm, openlook have
applications menus that come down with a mouse button on the desktop
(LMB by default I think).
>But I take your point. It
>is possible with the aid of scripts to have one menu that gets applied to
>all the window managers, but no one seems to have done it well yet.
Yes this is all I meant: portability of menus between window managers
if you like to have them. I was half expecting someone to reply to my
post with "don't you know gnokmenuman does this" or something & am
surprised it doesn't exist already. I'd give it a go myself if I had
the time. I guess people just use their fave WM and don't swap WMs
every week.
Dan
remove .hatespam to reply
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:38:56 +0200
"billwg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:t_6N6.263630$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9e2o02$1gf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > They don't, of course.
> > You get additional APIs or changes that doesn't break applications (like
> the
> > new UI in Whistler).
> >
> I can understand that you can load libraries for the application and
> everything continues to work OK for existing applications. My question
was
> in regard to a developer's problem in making a new applications. Does the
> application have to change to be optimized for each different GUI? Do
linux
> users favor one GUI over another as a "standard" or do they just take what
> comes with the particular application?
No, the GUI that the program was programmed to remained with it.
KDE & Gnome seemed to be the two standards, althought there are many others.
> To me the GUI flavors the entire
> appearance of the platform. If users choose GUIs like PC users choose
> Windows vs OS/2, then the application has to accomodate that choice, I
> think. If the users don't actually care, then you just write an app for
> whatever GUI is most suited for the app.
It doesn't change.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Pidcock)
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:45:53 GMT
On Fri, 18 May 2001 13:31:32 GMT, Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 May 2001, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
>> jet wrote:
>> >
>> > Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > Ray Fischer wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > >Ray Fischer wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >> And where do you suppose the men gets AIDS?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> From women.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Bzzzzzzzt! Wrong.
>> > > > >There is no transport mechanism for any such infection to happen.
>> > > >
>> > > > The male may be at less risk for HIV transmission than the female
>> > > > through vaginal intercourse. However, HIV can enter the body of the
>> > > > male through his urethra (the opening at the tip of the penis) or
>> > > > through small cuts or open sores on the penis.
>> > >
>> > > Blood pressure prevents this.
>> >
>> > Blood comes out of the urethra?
>>
>> No..it keeps the urethra tightly closed until forced open by exiting semen.
>
>Did you know in 1966 95% of U.S. soldiers in Vietnam had contracted
>VD?
Not all VD's are transmitted in the same way as HIV though, e.g.
genital Herpes.
remove .hatespam to reply
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux posts #1 TPC-H result (W2K still better)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:49:55 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>>>> "Ayende" == Ayende Rahien <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Ayende> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> Ayende> news:9e0eeo$qc9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> Doesn't VB cost money? Also, VB is one language only. Every
> >> language has strengths and weaknesses and no one language is
> >> best at everything. UNIX bydefault comes with quite a few. A
> >> decent modern installation of Linux comes with loads. I can
> >> think of many taskls where VB would be totally inferior to AWK
> >> and many tasks where the oppersite would be true. For really
> >> good scripting a good choice is needed.
>
> Ayende> Windows comes with WSH, which come with VBS & JS support.
> Ayende> You can add Perl & Python from activestate.com (free).
> Ayende> C#, VB.NET comes with .NET beta, and there are also other
> Ayende> languages that you can hook there, I believe.
>
> Does any of WSH, C#, VB.NET, .NET provides support of regular
> expressions?
AFAIK, no (except maybe Perl)
There is a regex COM object, RegExp I think, that is accessible to just
about anytihng in Windows, inclusing WSH lanaguages.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Neil Cerutti)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.be.advocacy
Subject: Re: Beos vs Linux
Date: 18 May 2001 15:01:21 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dan Pidcock posted:
>Yes this is all I meant: portability of menus between window
>managers if you like to have them. I was half expecting someone
>to reply to my post with "don't you know gnokmenuman does this"
>or something & am surprised it doesn't exist already.
Mandrake has contributed a universal menuing system, but any
particular window manager must be written to use it. For example,
using my Mandrake 7.1 system, I get the same application menus in
BlackBox, WindowMaker and Sawmill. The Mandrake menu gets put in
a submenu under Enlightenment. Twm ignores the Mandrake menu.
>I'd give it a go myself if I had the time. I guess people just
>use their fave WM and don't swap WMs every week.
It can be difficult to switch to a different wm. Several of them
require that you give up certain features and adopt different
operating procedures. For example, I'm addicted to clickable
icons on my desktop for launching common applications. This makes
several stock wms unsuitable for me.
--
Neil Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris,staroffice.com.support.install.solaris,comp.unix.advocacy,alt.os.unix,alt.unix
Subject: Re: Solaris 8 vs 7/2.x....
Date: 18 May 2001 15:06:38 GMT
In comp.unix.solaris Donal K. Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Philip Brown wrote:
:> On Thu, 17 May 2001 14:37:06 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:>> Experience says that NFS is much slower than local disk, especially when
:>> there is serious network contention.
:>
:> However, compilation is primarily CPU-bound, and MOST of the I/O
:> will be local (rereading the local system headers in /usr/include)
: You are, of course, absolutely right. NOT!
: Years-worth of experience says you are wrong, and putting everything
: local does make a big difference. Whether or not you believe that it
: should does not matter, since it does anyway. :^)
: Perhaps you only compile trivial things that only need to reference the
: basic set of headers (standard plus OS) that you can be sure of finding
: in /usr/local, but more complex projects (where major source trees are
: NFS-mounted) really hit this sort of thing.
Then you might want to look into a NetApp box, instead of wasting time
making each machine an island unto itself. Network Appliance boxes, or
even the cheaper Sun Cobalt boxes, can give NFS access time of ~5ms!
There's a reason for filesystems like NFS.
--
For the spam-bots: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:13:11 -0400
From: The Danimal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
jet once again demonstrates an astounding lack of self-insight:
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > You guys STILL have yet to demonstrate that homosexuality is
> > anything OTHER than defective behavior.
>
> Defective in what way?
a. Would you marry Aaron Kulkis?
b. Would you marry a homosexual man?
If the answer to both questions is "no," then we may conclude
that you consider both men to be defective as potential
marriage partners. You don't want to marry Aaron Kulkis
because in your mind he carries showstopping defects.
Ditto for the gay guy.
Most women I know do not want to share their beds with men who
frequently stick their dicks up other men's assholes. Clearly
these women regard that as defective behavior. Instead these
women prefer to give the best of themselves, their care and
attention, and the bulk of their free time to men who do not
carry what they clearly regard as the homosexual defect.
Jet, whenever you'd like to demonstrate that you don't regard
homosexuality as undesirable behavior you could start by
desiring homosexuals; i.e., treating homosexual men with the
exact same respect, attention, care, and preference that you
lavish on the minority of heterosexual men you regard as
nondefective.
-- the Danimal
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Linux takes Hollywood by storm!
Date: 18 May 2001 15:14:43 GMT
Mart van de Wege <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <vY4N6.1434$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Well, it would be nice if you included the link.
>>=20
>> In any event, I can imagine that they might use linux for their custom
>> stuff, since they used to use SGI's (and probably still do), but I can'=
t
>> imagine them converting their modeling stations and such that are using
>> common rendering software.
>>=20
>> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]=
..
>>>
>>> From ZDNET... looks like Linux has pre-empted Windows NT recently in
>>> Hollywood.
>>> Read the article and see for yourselves... LucasFilm ltd. has converte=
d
>>> mostly to Linux!
>>> And a few other film producers as well. After all, they do want to cu=
t
>>> costs.
>>>
>>> --
>>> =17V=03
>>=20
>>=20
> Well I haven't read the article yet, but there were a few Linux uses
> before in computer rendering and animation. Mostly Linux was used until
> now as the backend: ie a large cluster of Linux machines rendered the
> final result. I believe the modelling is done on workstations running
> other software (perhaps, gasp! even NT).
Which is actually very common. Lots of companies (including ILM) use
NT workstations to run things like Lightwave and SoftImage. But they also
use macs, Linux, and IRIX, depending directly on circumstance and media.
=====.
--=20
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: 18 May 2001 15:16:52 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <9e1dea$gip$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>> Almost forgot:
>>
>> Chad, Jan, Ubertroll, Todd, etc, what do you have to say to this:
>>
>> In the real world (ie not benchmarks) Linux is near the top in terms of
>> price/performance and scalibility. Win2K doesn't put in a single showing.
> And in the *real* world of desktops, where is Linux, pray tell?
> Absolutely... nowhere?
You're still a goddamned retard, pete. Few people care about Linux's
relevancy on the desktop (with the exception of idiot, whiney windows
users who in some leap of twisted logic appear to be able to convince
other whiney windows users that they are superior because they do not
understand linux), except perhaps KDE and Ximian.
IBM isnt dumping truckloads of money all over linux to get it on the
desktop. No one cares.
Please, for the sake of all that is good and pure, go back to windows.
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Anecdote: MS' grip loosening
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:18:07 GMT
On Thu, 17 May 2001 17:57:30 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What is Tivoli??
A network management package, along the lines of OpenView or Unicenter.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (quux111)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.be.advocacy
Subject: Re: Beos vs Linux
Date: 18 May 2001 14:19:11 GMT
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:9e37qd$iir$[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
><SNIP>
>
> It may suprise you to know that not everyone has an applications menu,
> and some of us wouldn't want one forced on us. But I take your point. It
> is possible with the aid of scripts to have one menu that gets applied to
> all the window managers, but no one seems to have done it well yet.
>
Debian does a pretty good job at this -- I've installed blackbox, icewm,
and fvwm2, and the menus are all synch'd pretty well. (The cool thing is
that when I apt-get a new program, Debian automagically adds it to my wm
menus!)
Regards,
quux111
>
> -Ed
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: bank switches from using NT 4
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:24:43 GMT
On Fri, 18 May 2001 05:02:07 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said Matthew Gardiner in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 17 May 2001
>>What do these hardware companies lose it they opensource their drivers?
>Precisely! You don't even have to bother writing drivers after that;
>just release the hardware specs, and the open source "community" (i.e.
>cluefull users) will do all the work for you!
Lots of hardware nowadays uses programmable logic. Often, it is designed so
that the driver initializes this logic. Companies usually want to keep this
part private, since they consider it "intellectual property".
However, that does not mean you can't release source to the _rest_ of the
driver, the part that interfaces with the OS. That's the part that will
change between kernels, and so it is the important part to open-source.
Simply put your "IP" into a binary library that is linked with the rest of
the driver. You'll want to write the driver that way anyhow, if you plan to
support more than one platform, so it isn't even any extra work.
One example of this method is the Proxim wireless NIC drivers. Seems to
work fine there. It may not be truly open source, but it avoids the worst
problems of purely binary-only drivers.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:47:36 -0400
From: The Danimal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
jet wrote:
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > jet wrote:
> > > Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > You guys STILL have yet to demonstrate that homosexuality is
> > > > anything OTHER than defective behavior.
> > >
> > > Defective in what way?
> >
> > nonproductive
>
> We've got 6 billion people. Doesn't seem like much of a defect.
By your laughably ignorant measure nothing is a defect: suicide,
drug addiction, mass murder, self-mutilation, cannibalism,
infanticide, child abuse, etc. After all, """we"""'ve got 6 billion
people. (And who exactly is "we"? Can I exchange """my""" 6 billion
people for something else?)
Biologists largely abandoned the "good of the species"
notion somewhere around the middle of the last century, replacing
it with the notion of diverse individuals within a species competing
for resources and reproductive opportunities, leading to a distribution
of winners and losers that over the long term drives evolutionary
change. Jet, you might want to get up to date with "The Selfish Gene"
by Richard Dawkins. That is if you'd like to come off as being somewhat
smarter than Aaron.
Jet, do you consider Aaron's rudeness to be defective behavior?
If so, why? The answer, of course, is that you don't like it.
A rude person offends many other people, probably a majority of
other people, and is therefore socially maladapted---i.e., defective.
Most people, on some level, find homosexual behavior at least as
offensive as rudeness. That is to say, they don't like it. It's not
the sort of behavior they desire in the people closest to them:
their family. This is most obvious when they have a child who turns
out to be a homosexual. A gay child who comes out usually causes the
heterosexual parent to experience moderate to severe distress.
A parent might be able to come to terms with that, but it's
usually a process of overcoming a huge disappointment. The parent,
of course, instinctively understands the threat to his or her
long-term genetic survival resulting from any severe reproductive
defects in his or her child. That is the source of the emotional
distress.
Jet, if during your few remaining years of fertility you bore a
son would you want him to grow up to feel intense and exclusive
urges to bugger other men? Or would you feel better if he grew
up to be normal?
> Is masturbation defective behavior?
You tell us what you think it is:
a. If you knew a man masturbated from time to time,
would you automatically rule him out as a relationship
prospect for that reason?
b. If you knew a man buggered other men from time to time,
would you automatically rule him out as a relationship
prospect for that reason?
-- the Danimal
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:42:11 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
"." wrote:
> You're still a goddamned retard, pete. Few people care about Linux's
> relevancy on the desktop (with the exception of idiot, whiney windows
> users who in some leap of twisted logic appear to be able to convince
> other whiney windows users that they are superior because they do not
> understand linux), except perhaps KDE and Ximian.
Right. I even gave Pete some suggestions on why his printer doesn't
work under Linux, and got no response. I figure that if he did actually
read some of the suggestions, his configuration would work. Then, he'd
have nothing else to bitch about. He's just another Windows Whiner.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:43:38 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
> > > Thats total bullshit. People buy Windows machines because..."everyone
> > > else has them"
> >
> > You are very sure of that. But I don't believe it;
>
> Of cpourse not. You are the one that reads quotes from m$ execs and then
> says... aw, that's not what they meant. You cant seem to see anything
> but your point of view.
I usually say: "That's not what they said", actually.
> > I think the conventional wisdom still applies:
> > it's the apps users care about.
>
> And what do these apps run on? window$. By micro$oft - who stole the
> marketplace.
You are very good at typing "stole". You get
a lot of practice. :D
But the reason Windows is so successful is because
the apps run on it.
[snip]
> > Well, I'm a wintroll. But the users buying
> > Windows computers are being completely
> > rational.
>
> Yeah. They buy what everyone else has.
... for good and sensible reasons! :D
[snip]
> > > No, its because m$ stole the marketplace.
> >
> > Developers don't need to care much about
> > that.
>
> Well genius, why do you think there's not much app development going on
> for Commodre 64/128, Apple II, Tandy Color Computer, Atari ST, etc?
Well, The first 5 machines listed there are 8-bit
computers- first generation PCs, and they really
really really suck hard compared to even the
original IBM PC.
Really. The IBM PC won because it wasn't
just better than its competitors at the time,
it was a *lot* better.
The Atari ST is the only 16 bit machine
you have there, and of course it came
after the PC. (The older 8-bit Ataris
were the Atari 400 and the Atari 800).
It failed because it was too little, too late-
and even more because Atari showed
little commitment to it. Besides, it was
a rather me-too-ish sort of computer. Why
bother with it in the face of the Macintosh,
the PC AT or the Amiga?
> Becasue no one buys the apps. Developers develop for the primary market
> place. Which is micro$oft - who stole the market.
You wouldn't buy the apps either if you had
ever used them. Those computers can't support
halfway decent apps.
Not even as well as DOS did. They made
DOS look really good, actually.
On those old 8-bit machines, you pretty much
had to develop anything significant in assembly;
high-level languages would produce code that
was just too big or just too slow (usually both).
And assembly on a 6502 or a Z80 is not
exactly a fun thing. 8 bit registers really,
really bite. You pretty much always need
bigger numbers than that, so you wind up
having to play with carry bits and string
arithmeitc operations together and...
... well, better you should use an abacus.
> > Consider how long it took game developers
> > to get with Microsoft's program. They stuck
> > to DOS because they could make better games
> > that way, and they knew perfectly well
> > that the users would follow.
>
> but they ... stuck... with ...micro$oft.
DOS, not necessarily MS-DOS.
MS wanted everyone to move to Windows,
but the mere prevelance of Windows didn't
do it- it didn't make game developers
switch.
Game developers were like other developers-
they switched when switching would allow
them to produce a more competitive product,
and only then.
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