Linux-Advocacy Digest #868, Volume #34 Thu, 31 May 01 05:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
("green")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: What does XP stands for ??? ("green")
Re: aaron kulkis steals his brother ian turdboy's crack pipe ("jet")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
("Edward Rosten")
Re: Borland drops Kylix Desktop to $199 'till Aug 23! ("green")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: The nature of competition ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Edward Rosten")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:19:17 +1000
"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Dan Pidcock wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 29 May 2001 06:27:12 GMT, Rex Ballard
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >JS \\ PL wrote:
> > >> and copy and paste is still much much better between apps, as opposed
to the
> > >> hit and miss copy/paste support in Linux.
> > >
> > >Linux uses the X11 "center button" (or two buttons down at same time)
> > >to
> > >paste. It works very well, and you can cut/paste between different
> > >applications
> > >without having to load the binaries of multiple executables for each
> > >pasted document.
> >
> > The centre button to paste selection does not always work so great.
> > If I have some text in a document that is a URL and I want to paste it
> > into the address field of my browser window, I have to select the
> > current address in the browser to delete it so that becomes the
> > selection when I try to paste. So I have to delete it then go back to
> > the document select the browser and finally past. A real PITA.
> >
> > How well does X selection work with images, e.g. in GIMP & xv? I've
> > never really tried that.
> >
> > Dan
> > remove .hatespam to reply
>
> Did the geniuses who wrote X consider Trackballs of varying designs when
> they chose the 'middle button' cut & paste?? Probably not, because it's
> very unwieldy for me and my Logitech trackball.
Did Logiteck take in to account X when they designed your trackball Probably
not,
because they had windows in mind.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:05:07 +0100
In article <9f3pju$ma0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > Still no proof I see.
>
> Look at the posst where i accused you of the same thing in the "Oopsie"
> thead. if you will follow them through, you will find the examples.
My server no longer has the Oopsie threads, so how am I supposed to
follow it? I could go and look it up on Google but that means trawling
through quite a large number of replies.
All I'm asking you to do is post _one_ example. You seem singularly
unable to do that, so I conclude they don't exist.
It can't be that hard for you to prove me wrong, so why not try?
> > you are unwilling (or just plain unable) then I think I can safely
> > conclude that you are LYING.
>
> I have provided you with an example above. I can't be bothered to follow
> it through, but it is there if you want it. Last time I spent time
> following through on a therad liek this, you ignored it.
You have only provided a name of a thread that no longer exists on my
server.
> Before accusing me of being a liar, you better check that I'm lying (which
> I'm not).
Then why can't you post an example of where I went wrong? Seems simple
enough. I can't get at the post, so why can't you post it?
> Now, I know that you're not going to follow the pointert above. Why not?
> Think you'll find something you don't like?
I think I would find no such thing. I think you're lying.
C'mon just one example of what you're talking about.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does XP stands for ???
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:31:10 +1000
eXtremely Proprietary
eXtra Problems
eXcentric Programming, ok pushing spelling a bit :)
eXPloiting public
eXploiting Public
"Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Zsolt"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I've seen some rather good, although 'unofficial' explanations about the
> > XP abbreviation in Windows XP. Let's try to collect them in this thread.
> > Anybody, who has other good idead, please post them here!
>
> eXtended Protocols
> eXPensive
------------------------------
From: "jet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: aaron kulkis steals his brother ian turdboy's crack pipe
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 01:29:54 -0700
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> chrisv wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >chrisv wrote:
> > >>
> > >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >chrisv wrote:
> > >> At least if I'm ignorant about something, I don't shoot my mouth off
> > >> about it, unlike you, who likes to play "wannabe expert" on every
> > >> subject imaginable....
> > >
> > >Wrong. I claim no expertise in numerous fields.
> >
> > Okay, change "on every subject imaginable" to "on nearly every subject
> > which arises in this newsgroup, and in which most of, you are very
> > much out of your depth."
> >
> > >For example hindi, farsi, chinese, and a multitude of other foreign
languages.
> >
> > Wow, I'm really impressed. I'm surprised that you haven't claimed
> > fluency in Chinese, then refused to provide proof (you'd just say
> > "jump"), just like many of your other claims.
> >
> > >Hope that helps.
> >
> > It didn't. Your anal, literal interpretation of what I wrote just
> > made you look like an idiot bent on ignoring my point.
>
> Are you saying that I should interpret your words in some way
> other than what you wrote?
>
>
>
> Do what you say. Say what you mean. One thing leads to another.
You mean like you are going to take Steve Chaney to court like you said you
would?
LOL.
J
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:24:15 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> >Windows maybe, but Windows 2000?
>
> Depends on the metrics. I now have Win2k on my work system. So far,
> I'm not impressed, although it is an improvement in reliability.
> But it's still Windows -- and I just installed SP2. Why would I
> have to patch Windows if it's "ultra-reliable to the point of 99.999%
> uptime"? :-)
I'm running Windows 2000 at work and it does seem a lot more stable.
What eventually would cause Windows 98 SE to die Windows 2000 hardly
blinks at.
As for Service Packs, don't you install patches etc. to Linux for
various components?
> And cmd.exe *still* doesn't like "cd \\domain\host\dir". Even after SP2.
> Unix has never had a problem with this sort of thing, although the
> implementation is slightly different (/net, /nfs, /auto, or /home
> might be used as mountpoints in an automounter, the rough equivalent
> of SMB/UNC.)
If I do "cd /windows/C" on my home system, it selects an empty drive. If
I do it from the desktop, the C:\ drive gets mounted.
Can I do cd //pc166/share/file in Linux? Or the equivalent in NFS? Don't
I have to set something up first?
> >MOTIF is a dinosaur. Clunky antiquated style, as compared to the
> >lightweight style of Windows.
>
> Compared to...?
Windows.
> One has to also count the widget implementation -- which is distributed
> throughout various parts of Windows. That makes Windows fairly heavy,
> as one has to include many of the DLLs; Windows becomes *very* heavy
> when one wants to display text using IE as an embedded widget/browser.
> (Not that Linux is lighter or heavier in that regard, although the
> weight is differently distributed. One slightly bodgy method is
> to throw the problem at Netscape; another, more elegant method, might
> use CORBA.)
Windows core components are pretty lightweight. If you want to include
the fat bloated monster called Internet Drawler, sorry, Explorer - what
can I say? There are HTML controls that aren't IE that are a lot
smaller. MOTIF certainly doesn't have a native HTML control.
> I'm not sure what's clunky and antiquated about Motif from the user's
> standpoint (if one wants really clunky, try classic Athena -- no
> 3-d look, scrollbars that were just short of bizarre, and buttons and
> toggles that had identical look and feel until one tried to click).
> True, Motif doesn't have "moveaway" menu bars -- but if that's someone's
> idea of modern, then I'd suggest someone prefers gewgawgery to
> just getting the darned thing to work right. :-)
MOTIF looks old fashioned by today's standards. Incidentally, MOTIF
invented the concept of a 'gadget' as using a window for every label,
button etc. proved to be a massive resource hog. Since menu's consumed
quite a few of these, gadgets were a god-send. They share their parent's
Window.
> And Motif does provide tear-away menus, if one wants them.
> (They're occasionally useful.)
A feature I've rarely seen and used.
> From the programmer's standpoint, Motif leaves some things to be
> desired; Java has a better layout manager, for example, although
> XmForm is at least usable (classic Athena's Form widget was horrid;
> Motif's XmForm is merely bad). Tcl/TK has a model similar to
> Java's, albeit nore limited.
Windows has no layout manager.
> I'm not sure what Windows has, precisely, but from what I've observed
> regarding resources, it appears that Windows relies far too heavily
> on absolute coordinate positioning, which means that if a font changes
> things start to look very weird. It's convenient to set up from
> within Visual Studio, but that's about it -- and woe betide the user
> who doesn't have the right fonts. Of course, Windows provides lots
> of fonts, too....masking the problem.
Visual C++ uses Dialog Font Units to get round this problem. The dialog
is specified in absolute units, but they're a scaling of these dialog
font units.
Delphi/Kylix has a form manager, a very simple one. An object can be
aligned: None, Client, Top, Bottom, Left and Right. They added more to
do with relative positions but the early alignment is simple and works
well.
MOTIF has alignment in from edge to edge of components, as well as
percentage offset. It was powerful but a real pig to set up.
> >> - control -- Linux wins here in limited areas because NT requires
> >> a process to respond to events; if the process hangs, the window "sticks".
> >> Win2k is a little better in that regard, allowing a user to kill
> >> a hanging process by closing its window.
> >
> >I'm not quite sure how Linux does the same without a process?
>
> Linux does have a process. It's called the window manager. :-)
> That's one reason why Linux windows don't hang if the application
> has problems.
Ah I see what you mean. You mean control of windows. I had noticed you
can drag around a window in Linux when its process is hung, something
you can't do on Windows. However, that's not a huge advantage. I have
seen you can kill a window on X but leave its process still hung and
running. I think the same is possible on Windows.
> >There are Window Managers for Windows, not that I've tried many. Here I
> >agree with you in that Linux has more flexible desktop for eye-candy.
> >Windows XP has added themes, provided you like the old grey style or the
> >new colourful style.
>
> Oh goody! Black or candy-apple red! :-) Gosh what a choice....
There are going to be more but... why bother doing themes if you don't
allow choice?
> >An antiquated design that was left behind by more modern OS's since then.
>
> You bit! :-) But what is the "advanced design" that Windows is using?
No need to rebuild the kernel.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:31:46 +0100
> Did the geniuses who wrote X consider Trackballs of varying designs when
> they chose the 'middle button' cut & paste?? Probably not, because it's
> very unwieldy for me and my Logitech trackball.
Did the geniuses who made your track ball build it with X in mind??
Bearing in mind X was there first, the trackball makers seem to be at
fault.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Borland drops Kylix Desktop to $199 'till Aug 23!
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:37:46 +1000
I have so far received Delphi 4, 2
c builder something,
jbuilder 2
jbuilder 4 foundation free on magazine
covers.
it's usually associated with a upgrade to the next version for a special
price.
doesn't mean they will drop the product (I hope).
It's still $400 aus though.
"Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9f4807$86k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Dave Martel"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >>Hmmm... You don't suppose this is a prelude to discontinuing the
> > >>product, do you?
> > >
> > > Hope so. IMO Borland's become too much like all the other
> > > milk-the-consumer software outfits. I'd rather not see the
> > > consumer-as-cash-cow attitude brought to linux.
> >
> > And I hope not. A good cross-platform development environment could
have
> > the beneficial side effect of bringing a lot of Windows programmers and
> > their products into the Linux world. They're knocking eighty percent
off
> > the price and you accuse them of milking the customer? It looks to me
> > like they're doing their absolute best to appeal to the more fiscally
> > responsible Linux development market.
>
> Actually, what is annoying is that they suddenly drop 80% of the price and
> give no solution to those who paid a *grand* for it.
> I can't imagine what Borland was thinking.
>
>
> > You might not like Borland all that much, but at least they're
responding
> > to demand. I have yet to see a shipping copy of VisualStudio.NET for
> > Linux come out of the Redmondian empire.
>
> I've yet to see a shipping copy of VisualStudio.NET for Windows come out
of
> the Redmondian empire.
>
>
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:28:43 +0100
In article <9f3q39$mhp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > And how many of them are likely to be affordable on the mass market
> > (except m68k)?
>
> And ARM, or are you forgetting that there are a LOT of ARM processors
> around these days?
Since my old Archimedes is ARM, I take your point, however, other than
the now defunct Archimedes, can you point to one mass market desktop PC
using ARM?
PDA's like Psion's series 5 use ARM.
> And besides why is it not an advantage if the mass market can't affors an
> S/390? There's enough of a market to make money from them.
True, but its a small market.
> > Slow is the right word. X Windows on my system crawls.
>
> Yeah, but you have a cursed system. I have a P133 and it is easily fast
> enough.
I have a Voodoo 5500. I think that's enough explanation.
> > MOTIF is a dinosaur. Clunky antiquated style, as compared to the
> > lightweight style of Windows.
>
> Windows? Lightweight?! So that's why you need 128M to do anything even
> remotely useful in Win2K?
The Windows controls are lightweight. The rest of it, that's a different
story!
> > Since Windows does not rely on the console so much, this is hardly a big
> > advantage.
>
> Unless you liek using the console, in which case it is a big advantage.
Fair enough.
> > An antiquated design that was left behind by more modern OS's since
> > then.
>
> The same could be said of many things in NT as well.
Yean, BeOS was an interesting design. Shame it never went anywhere.
> > Multimedia support - streaming sound and video. On my slow X graphics it
> > barely plays them. On Windows no problem at all.
>
> Oddly enough, I don't use X to play sounds. As I thought, you have a
> really wierd setup.
Ha ha ha.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The nature of competition
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:41:15 +0100
> For example, I'd like to be able to handle all screen related settings
> such as resolution, color bit depth, etc. from one place, such as right
> click->properties->screen as in W2k.
They all are in one place XConfigurator (which you said yourself). So?
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:44:19 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete
Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <9f3pmi$ma1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>> > I don't remember them, and I think I would. The fact that you're not
>> > willing (or unable) to post any examples despite being asked
>> > repeatedly to produce them tells me you're lying and there are none.
>>
>> And the fact that I posted them before only for you to ignore them
>> tells me that you're a common troll.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about. Post them again, if they
> exist, and prove me wrong. Otherwise, shut up!
You asked that last time, I did it and you ignored me. I'm not going to
waste my time. If you want, you can follow the link I will provide and
look for yourself.
Here is the link:
http://www.google.com
have fun.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:46:13 +0100
>> > I don't remember them, and I think I would. The fact that you're not
>> > willing (or unable) to post any examples despite being asked
>> > repeatedly to produce them tells me you're lying and there are none.
>> There is another alternative Pete, one which you seem unable to grasp.
>
> Oh I know what you're talking about.
>
> How about posting the offending articles - as I have no idea what you or
> Edward are talking about? Is that so hard huh? Or could it be they
> don't exist - which is why they aren't being posted? Huh? Huh?
Could it be that they were posetd but ignored and I'm simply not going to
waste my time searching for them again.
> Go on! Prove me wrong!
I did, you ignored me. If I do it again, you'll ignore me again and we'll
have the same thread in 6 months.
> Otherwise, you're nothing but a liar!
Mabey your inability to remember means that you're nothing but an idiot.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:50:29 +0100
> Common PC hassles, I want a MAC G4 power cube with no dam fan, and a 15"
> LCD!
go for a 17" LCD. Puts you apart from the crowd.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
