Linux-Advocacy Digest #998, Volume #34            Wed, 6 Jun 01 00:13:02 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the  dust! (Bryan C)
  XP - what's for me? (Charlie Ebert)
  Re: Microsoft GPL'S WINDOWS! ("Interconnect")
  Re: A Song for Aaron ("Paolo Ciambotti")
  Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the    dust! ("JS \\ 
PL")
  Re: Argh - Ballmer ("Erik Funkenbusch")
  Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("green")
  Cool Domain Name Generation Tool ("RagingNames.com")
  Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the  dust! ("green")
  Re: Windows advocate of the year. ("Paolo Ciambotti")
  Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("JS \\ PL")

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bryan C)
Crossposted-To: 
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the  dust!
Date: 5 Jun 2001 20:17:32 -0700

"JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> "Bryan C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>  news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 23 May 2001
> > > > >JS \\ PL wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have to say, Linux Mandrake 8 was looking real damn good. Support
>  for
>  all
> > > > >> my hardware (for once) easy set-up, even seting up networking and
>  connection
> > > > >> sharing was painless. Good newsreader - Knode, pretty stable OS. I
>  even
> > > > >> liked the fact that it stayed connected to the Internet when
>  switching
>  users
> > > > >
> > > > >this has been a fact of Unix family operating systems since they were
> > > > >first networked (i.e. 1970's)
> > > >
> > > > The fact is, the very idea that a network connection would be broken
> > > > because a user logged out (pardon me; because THE user logged out) is
>  a
> > > > Windowsism to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > >> (unlike Win2K)
> > > > >
> > > > >Another admission that Mafia$oft is over 30 years behind in basic
>  technology.
> > > >
> > > > More than that.  Microsoft says XP will have it; nobody really knows
>  if
> > > > it is ever going to actually work.
> > >
> > > Microsoft doesn't "say" they will have it. They HAVE it!
> > > And it seems to work pretty good for my big 5 (five) users. All five can
>  be
> > > logged on, with programs open, and switching between users is very
>  quick.
> > > It's not a matter of saving a list of programs to be opened when that
>  user
> > > logs back in. The programs are open just as you left them.  That word
> > > document you have open is STILL open with the cursor still blinking
>  right
> > > where you left it. Half installed programs are STILL half installed when
>  you
> > > return. The only thing I've found is that a half played mp3 (in Winamp)
>  is
> > > closed down when a user switch takes place. But who knows, maybe Media
> > > Player (tm) will automatically pause in the final version. :-)
> > >
> > > I believe MS is on to something with Windows XP. Hell it even plays my
>  OLD
> > > dos games perfectly. Way to go Microsoft! Still #1 into the new
>  millenium!
> >
> > A few questions...
> >
> > First off, what if that word document is open and the machine crashes
> > or is shutdown while another user is using the system?  If on reboot,
> > everything is fine than I suspect a list of some sort is saved.
> 
> The OS won't crash so I guess we'll never know the answer to "what if it
> crashes". 

REALLY?? Pardon me for not believing that.  I probably will not know
personally for at least 2-3 years.

>If you shut it down it warns of all active users, and asks if
> you'd like to save whatever programs are open (that's what shutting down
> IS).

> 
> >
> > Second, all those programs open seems like alot to ask of any MS OS on
> > a typical PC.
> 
> Actually last week I had Mandrake installed on an antique 233mhz Packard
> Bell with 60 mb of edo ram. On board 1mb video chip, on board sound 800x600
> resolution. It was SO DAMN SLOW I had to take it off the HD. I then
> installed WinXP beta on the exact same system and it runs about as fast as
> Win98 did on it and about 5 times as fast as Mandrake did. One note of hope
> for Linux though, while Madrake was installed I ran test websites using
> Apache and it served pages up in it's usual "sub second" quickness.
> 
> >I wonder what kind of hardware requirements are
> > necessary to successfully support this feature if nothing is being
> > saved to non-volatile memory as you suggest.
> 
> More RAM would be required for each user. I've got four users logged on
> right now, there's 24 open applications and 78 total processes running. This
> is taxing my 224mb ram. Task manager is showing 275mb memory in use with
> 32mb of available physical memory, so it's doing a little HD writing.
> The processor is still hovering about 3-7%.
> 
> Now if I go in and close all the open apps by the other users memory usage
> drops to 154 mb with 117mb of available physical memory.
> 
> 
> > Third, can all five users USE the XP box simultaneously via remote
> > connection?
> 
> <paste>
> 
> Remote Desktop overview
> With Remote Desktop on Whistler Professional, you can have access to a
> Windows session that is running on your computer when you are at another
> computer. This means, for example, that you can connect to your work
> computer from home and have access to all of your applications, files, and
> network resources as though you were in front of your computer at work. You
> can leave programs running at work and when you get home, you can see your
> desktop at work displayed on your home computer, with the same programs
> running.
> 
> When you connect to your computer at work, Remote Desktop automatically
> locks that computer so no one else can access your applications and files
> while you are gone. When you come back to your computer at work, you can
> unlock it by typing CTRL+ALT+DEL.
> 
> Remote Desktop also allows more than one user to have active sessions on a
> single computer. This means that multiple users can leave their applications
> running and preserve the state of their Windows session even while others
> are logged on.
> 
> You can easily switch from one user to another. For example, suppose you
> have logged on to update an expense report, and someone else needs to log on
> to perform another task. You can disconnect your Remote Desktop session,
> allow the other user to use the computer, and then reconnect to find the
> expense report exactly as you left it. This ability to switch between users
> works on standalone computers and computers that are members of workgroups.
> 
> Remote Desktop enables a variety of scenarios, including:
> 
> Working at home - Access work in progress on your office computer from home,
> including full access to all local and remote devices.
> Collaborating - Bring your desktop to a colleague's office to debug some
> code, update a Microsoft PowerPoint slide presentation, or proofread a
> document.

What if my colleague's computer is running on unix or mac or..?  Are
there 'XP Remote Desktop' clients for different operating systems?

> Sharing a console - Allow multiple users to maintain separate program and
> configuration sessions on a single computer, such as at a teller station or
> a sales desk.

How much better is this than profiles?

> To use Remote Desktop, you need the following:

Will it work with the 'typical' installation?
> 
> A computer running Whistler Professional ("remote" computer) with connection
> to a Local Area Network or the Internet.
> A second computer ("home" computer) with access to the Local Area Network
> via network connection, modem, or Virtual Private Network (VPN) connection.
> This computer must have Remote Desktop Connection, formerly called the
> Terminal Services client, installed.
> Appropriate user accounts and permissions.
> 
> </paste>

Thanx for the overview. In an earlier posting you state that you feel
that Microsoft is on to something but isn't this particular "on to
something feature" been around in the *nix world for years and in
windows with Terminal Services? (Maybe some of the pros can help with
more specific terms.) And what about clients for other op systems?  I
know Exceed is an X session(*nix)to PC client.

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: XP - what's for me?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:17:48 GMT


The largest thing inside MS's XP is it's software
piracy prevention, detection and reporting features.

Your paying $300 + dollars for an upgrade so that
MS can spy on you.  Sell your name on a list of
software pirates to be prosecuted by attorneys.
Interfere in your everyday privacy.

That is what 30% of XP is.

Questions!  

Should it be legal for MS to force all users
of Windows to submit to inhouse spying even
if it is in their EULA and they agreed?

Do you think forcing all other countries
on the planet who use Windows to play MS's
game a good trade practice?  Especially
since we have a new monument in Asia to
keep the Pueblo company.

If you are a Republican and you are against
gun control including gun registration then
why are you for having MS spy on you and
your family then sell a list of software
you have installed to anybody they please
for any purpose?

Do you believe MS should have the license
to essentially take over the internet
with .NET and replace the current world
powers who are regulating it's functionality?

Do you believe foreign powers such as China
will eventually outlaw all Mircrosoft
products from their country to prevent
the US and Microsoft from dominating 
the internet and making the world
an American's only club?

-- 
Charlie
=======

------------------------------

From: "Interconnect" <mark###@logichip.com.au>
Subject: Re: Microsoft GPL'S WINDOWS!
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:30:55 +1000

Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Interesting title.
>
> I think we should have a debate right here and now!
>
> Would MS remain a monopoly should it GPL all of Windows?
>
> Why not?  RedHat, Suse, Mandrake, Caldera, Yellow Dog
> are all GPL'd linux distributions anybody can download
> off the net and they are selling like hotcakes at the
> store.  Comp USA can't hardly keep the boxes on the
> shelves before they are gone.
>
> I'm going to say if they GPL'd Windows MS would
> probably remain in power.
>
> Correct or incorrect thinking?

If this were to happen then I think MS would stay at number one on the end
users desktop.

Since Win98 (OEM) I have not upgraded my Windows software (at home) and I
never intend to unless there is some compelling reason to do so. Apart from
games Linux meets all my computing needs at home.

>You decide.
>
>
>
> --
> Charlie
> -------



------------------------------

From: "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A Song for Aaron
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:23:22 -0700

Sung to: Queen's We Are the Champions

I've posted flames, time after time
I've done my posting with never a rhyme
And off-topic posts, I've made a few
I've had my share of flames and nasty names
But I've come through
And I need to go on, and on, and on, and on

{Refrain}
We are the flamers my friend
And we'll keep on flaming 'til the end
We are the flamers, we are the flamers
No time for C.O.M.N.A 'cause we are the flamers
Of C.O.L.A

I've flamed the Kulkis and the flatfish
They brought me crossposts and spam
And everything that I'd never wish
I plonk you all
But it's been no drag-and-drop, no cut-and-paste
I consider it a challenge before the whole winvocates
And I never make sense
And I need to go on, and on, and on, and on

{Refrain}

{Refrain minus "Of the world"}

------------------------------

From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the    dust!
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:18:37 -0400


"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS \\ PL wrote:
> >
> > "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:17:08 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > >  ("JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > >
> > > >"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> Bryan C wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >>  I wonder what kind of hardware requirements are
> > > >> > necessary to successfully support this feature if nothing is
being
> > > >> > saved to non-volatile memory as you suggest.
> > > >> >
> > > >> Reportedly, the hardware requirements for XP, at least in terms of
> > > >> memory, are double those of Win 2K.  I assume the HD and CPU
> > > >> requirements are also doubled.
> > > >
> > > >I don't think you can even find a new hard drive as small as what
Window
> > XP
> > > >would require (1.5gb). I don't think you can even find a new
processor as
> > > >small as what Windows XP will require (233mhz). The minimum
requirement
> > is
> > > >basicly an old computer with (maybe) a $30 memory boost.
> > >
> > > Why the hell does it require 1.5Gb? I can install linux easily in
> > > 500Mb on a 100mhz,
> >
> > Then do it. Due to the fact that no one company has ever and can never
> > possess a monopoly on operating systems your perfectly free to NOT use
> > Windows XP.
> >
>
> Microsoft does, by definition, have a monopoly in the desktop OS market.

They ESPECIALLY don't have a monopoly by definition. There's the convoluted
straw grabbing logic that the DOJ and Jackson has put forth which has fooled
some into believing that they have a monopoly. But (I repeat) they
ESPECIALLY don't have a monopoly by definition.   As you'll soon see by the
utter reversal by the appeals court.



------------------------------

From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Argh - Ballmer
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:19:12 -0500

"Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <l10T6.7283$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> How would you propose that it be kept in the public domain without some
> >> form of restrictive licensing?  Publically funded research
> >> automagically becoming public domain is a myth as far as I am
> >> concerned.
> >
> > Huh?  Once it's in the public domain, it's always in the public domain.
>
> Ohmygawd.  This is so wrong I don't really know quite where to begin.

Perhaps with a valid argument.

> "... some 73 percent of the science papers cited by U.S. industry patents
> were public science - authored at universities, laboratories, and other
> organizations primarily funded by public resources."
>
> http://www.chiresearch.com/nltviii1.htm

This has nothing to do with published code.

> Intellectual property does not enter into the public domain simply because
> it was publicly funded.  That is a myth and a misconception, and I stand
> by my original statement.

I didn't say otherwise.  I simply said that once it is in the public domain,
it can't be re-copyrighted (after a copyright expires, for instance) or
copyrighted.  The Public Domain work is still public domain.

> >> If you want a modern day corollary, just look at what Microsoft did
> >> with Kerberos.  Kerberos development was publically funded, but through
> >> the simple addition of an extension to the standard, it became
> >> copyrighted Microsoft intellectual property.  So even though Microsoft
> >> Kerberos was primarily developed with public funds, you will have to
> >> pay to use it.
> > No, you are mistaken.  The only thing MS copyrighted was their
> > extension, not Kerberos itself.  Further, the Kerberos team actually
> > created the extension field themselves specifically for uses like this.
>
> From Microsoft's original Kerberos agreement....
>
> "Microsoft Authorization Data Specification v. 1.0 for Microsoft Windows
> 2000 Operating Systems, April, 2000; Copyright 2000 Microsoft Corporation.
> All rights reserved. "
>
> Do you see any attributions there?  I don't.

Why?  It's the specification of the authorization data, not the kerberos
protocol.  The authorization data is what goes in the extension field of the
kerberos ticket.

> And in reality, Microsoft has every right to copyright the entire content.
> Ideas are not copyrightable (Judge Learned Hand again), and a
> specification such as Kerberos is merely an idea.  Microsoft's
> implementation, if completely re-written to implement the idea being
> copied, and without plagiarizing from any other source, is lawfully
> copyrightable "en toto". This is one of the legal precepts that allow
> projects like Samba to thrive.  If you want to deny Microsoft this right,
> then you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Then they have the right to copyright the implementation, not the
specification, unless they make significant changes to it.

> > It would help if you didn't distort the facts.
>
> It would help if you had some facts.

It would help if you used the right argument.




------------------------------

From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:32:24 +1000


"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Philip Nicholls in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 27 May 2001
> >On 24 May 2001 17:47:01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad
> >Everett) wrote:
>    [...]
> >>Can I setup Windows XP at home so that I can log into it via ssh and
have
> >>a server running that acts as a proxy web browser, allowing me to
> >>browse the web from my machine at work over an encrypted channel and
> >>bypassing the filters on my company's firewall?  And do all this with
> >>out-of-the-box free software?
> >
> >Can the average Joe or Jane off the street do this with your free
> >software?  Would the average Joe or Jane off  the street even WANT to
> >do any of this?
>
> YES!  That is the point, Philip.  Of course they can.  They don't have
> to write the software themselves, for god's sake.  They do have to read
> and learn quite a bit, sure, but that didn't stop them from getting a PC
> in the first place.
>
> >The will, however, be able to install, configure and use Windows XP.
>
> ...and they will, indeed, curse it from the first moment on, while
> remaining captive to monopoly crapware.  They can re-install Windows XP;
> in Linux, the most they'll have to learn is how to recompile a kernel, a
> far less intrusive activity, from their point of view.

shit, comparing compiling a kernel to installing windows xp. has it got
easyer,
is there a wisard that helps it along in 2.4.4 ?.

more likly the arerage joe/jane computer user will pass it of to some
relitive or
friend to do for them. probably happens 80% of the time any way.


>
> >>Can I use Windows XP to redirect it's output over an encrypted network
> >>port so that I can run applications on my home machine from my machine
> >>at work, complete with GUI features?  And do all this with
out-of-the-box
> >>free software?
> >
> >Again, I don't think Windows XP is targetting people who would want to
> >do this.  Do you?
>
> I know of no person using a PC that Windows XP is not targeting.  Are
> you saying MS doesn't want some people to buy XP?
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
>   *** The best way to convince another is
>           to state your case moderately and
>              accurately.   - Benjamin Franklin ***



------------------------------

Reply-To: "RagingNames.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "RagingNames.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Cool Domain Name Generation Tool
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:39:04 -0400

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------------------------------

From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the  dust!
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:38:57 +1000

ok thanks :)
"stevekimble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:T4dT6.3986$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9el7pa$lf5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > green wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Chronos Tachyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> > in
> > > > message news:RyZO6.9067$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > On Wed 23 May 2001 07:35, green wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > um just a question
> > > > > >
> > > > > > how would I set up linux to work like (not using winframe or
> citrix
> > > > > > metaframe) to keep a users programs running even though they
> logout
> > so
> > > > > > they resume where they left off but have the option to close the
> > session
> > > > > > (close programs if they aren't coming back)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > just a link would be fine. (setting up xterminal servers)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks
> > > > > > bye.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Something like screen(1) would work great for terminal programs,
and
> > with
> > > > > some juggling VNC can do the same for X apps.  I assume you mean
> > "program
> > > > > is exactly as I left it" and not just the usual state management
> > stuff,
> > > > > correct?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > yes I mean as the user left it. not have each program reload and
> restore
> > > > users session.
> > > >
> > > > even store it to disk (memory image like a suspend to disk) and
resume
> > if
> > > > they log on again
> > > > would be good to conserve memory.
> > >
> > > That's pretty much cutting-edge stuff outside of advanced IBM
mainframe
> > OS's.
> > >
> >
> > Pity :(
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I considered vnc but the clients won't be running a x client only
the
> > server
> > > > so vnc would run on the server computer as a client and a server so
> > that's
> > > > no good.
> > > >
> > > > the only way I can think of is having xdm (or kdm gdm) accept
several
> x
> > > > connections, but it doesn't allow for logging of but leaving the
users
> > > > programs running or in suspend state.
>
> As an aside which is of no great import to Linux, I believe SCO's Vision
> Resume
> does as you describe. I haven't used it myself so can't back this up with
> actual
> experience - just wanted to give it a mention.
>
> Regards, Steve
>
>



------------------------------

From: "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows advocate of the year.
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:41:52 -0700

In article <9fi5n6$89j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Not all windows advocates are bad.
> 
> They are capable of reasoned, rational arguments (though you might not
> believe it with the amount of drivel coming out of people like Chad
> Myers).
> 
> I think we should have a Wincvocate of the year nominated (it makes a
> change from nominating trolls).
> 
> I would like to nominate Ayende Rahien. If all windows advocates were
> like this, this group would be a much better place. Heck, if all Linux
> advocates were like this, he group would be a better place.

I can't believe nobody has yet nominated Aaron Kulkis.

Well, anyway, I nominate Aaron as first runner-up in case the winner is
unable to serve in his official capacity.  Really, how many of the
uninitiated here have wondered whether Aaron is actually a Winvocate in
disguise?  Besides, I enjoy Aaron's subtle yet informative posts and think
he should get some kind of recognition for all his efforts.

By the way, where the hell is the grin tag documented?

------------------------------

From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:48:28 -0400


"Quantum Leaper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:2X8T6.21115$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Said Quantum Leaper in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 28 May 2001
> >    [...]
> > >> That is not a "Linux" problem. The DVD communitty will not allow open
> > >> source or free versions of the DVD drivers, and they wont produce
> > >> commercial drivers.
> > >>
> > >I know that,  and that the reason I won't switch,  I would say it is a
> Linux
> > >problem.
> >
> > Sounds more like your problem.  "Linux" is an OS; the only problems it
> > has are technical glitches or bugs.  As pointed out, the lack of DVD
> > support is neither.
> >
> Linux problem is the 'DVD community' doesn't want open source drivers or
DVD
> decoding programs,  so I would say that a problem with Linux.  Closed
source
> program are available on the Mac and Windows.
>
> > >Since the drivers would have to be closed source and distributed
> > >as binary only.   Something need to be done about it or you will lose
> alot
> > >of new users,  since just about every new computer comes with a DVD
> drive.
> >
> > BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
> >
> I guess you never go to Best Buy or any place that sells new computers,
> since last time I checked most of the computers had a DVD or CDRW or a
combo
> drive.   Laugh if you want,  but I would suggest getting you head out of
the
> sand first...

Come on, your talking to a guy that's running Windows 95 and is pissed
because it sucks, but he's too broke to run anything else so he's blaming
Microsoft. That's Max in a sentence.



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