Linux-Misc Digest #320, Volume #20 Sun, 23 May 99 16:13:12 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why MS anti-linux group won't work (long) (Christopher B. Browne)
kppp can't resolve addresses (newbie q) (Vic Rosenthal)
Re: is there any OpenSource video app projects ? (Hans Lambermont)
Re: WORDS OF WISDOM!! Upgrading RedHat 5.1 to 2.2.X Kernel (Rob Bos)
Re: NT the best web platform? (Christopher B. Browne)
My Windows is dead...and I need it!! ("Steven K.I")
Re: make install (Matthew Bafford)
Q: freezing up? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Hi, am having trouble with cpio-2.4.2 on S.u.S.E. 6.0 (Juergen Heinzl)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why MS anti-linux group won't work (long)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 18:54:14 GMT
On Sun, 23 May 1999 09:09:35 -0700, Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>II. Linux relies on a different business model than past OS and/or
>software vendors.
>
>A. Whereas Mac, Caldera's DR-Dos and OS/2 relied on M$ for some portion
>of their business operations, there is NO reliance on microsoft for
>development of either core component software or OS. This alleviates
>the "indian/cavalry syndrome" that every other company that competed
>with Microsoft in the past has faced. Those companies relied on M$ to
>supply either the operating system (borland, corel), or a core component
>in the suite of tools (mac, caldera, OS/2), and the result was not
>unlike the indians who bought bullets and weapons for their war against
>the federal army from the U.S. government because they lacked the
>resources to manufacture them on their own.
There *is* a weakness to this argument, which is that Linux has grown to
popularity due to the ability to cheaply deploy it on "PC" hardware, whose
design and production has resulted from the widespread deployment of MSFT
software.
In other words, you can get a cheap Linux box because it is also a cheap
WinTel box, and it's the WinTel folks that spent the money to get it
designed and deployed to market.
The argument would be stronger if there was substantial quantity of hardware
being deployed by and for the Linux community.
A "for instance" that would be interesting to see happen is the F-CPU
project; it would be quite valuable to have a CPU developed by and for
deployment with free software. (Note that nothing stops it from *also*
running other OSes and software.)
>B. The community of users is more self-reliant than past models.
>Whereas DR-Dos, OS/2, and Mac relied on selling OS's to client-type end
>users, the primary Linux community consists of developers and
>sys-admins. Because these users have a generally higher skill-set in
>relation to "the average user", in a way that is unprecedented outside
>of the academic model, end-users themselves can contibute to the
>improvement and long-term success of the OS and its core suite of tools
>(and are indeed, many times more likely to do so).
This has been the case in the context where users were previously UNIX
users, and knew at least enough C to fiddle with Makefiles to get things to
run and be installed.
As the "community" grows, it is not clear that that self-reliance will
continue, or whether there is a "core group" that will represent a
diminishing proportion of the population.
Assuming a constant set of "competent core people" requires assuming that if
a million new users get added that they're effectively "witless cattle" that
can *never* learn *anything;* that's certainly not entirely true, but I
suspect that there may be some truth to it.
>III. The world has changed
>
>A. the open source model, Linux in particular, can and will succeed
>because the users themselves control access to information in a way that
>people in the past did not. Anyone with a Linux box (and the
>proficiency to use it) can pass data on to the world at large. The FUD
>tactics which worked in the past, simply because M$ could outspend their
>competitors on marketing, are simply less effective in a world where
>people need not rely on a media that is controlled by corporate
>America. Under Linux, the users themselves can send and receive
>information in a way that was not possible in the past.
Again, this is true to the extent to which people have "proficiency."
There is not a clear model available to predict the growth of "proficiency"
to go along with the growth of population of users.
>B. Linux is a social phenomenon. For every dollar that M$ spends on
>FUD marketing tactics to hammer Linux down, the more people will rally
>around Linux and the open-source model. Linux is a counter-culture that
>is based, in part, on a rejection of Micro$oft. The bigger and more
>threatening that people perceive Micro$oft to be, the more people will
>rally around an alternative solution.
Unfortunately, a reaction of "anything-but-Microsoft" simply isn't
constructive.
There are those that follow the pattern:
"MSFT sells Word, therefore Word is bad, therefore whatever is like Word
on Linux is bad, and whatever is *un*like Word on Linux must be good"
This isn't *nearly* good enough; there are things MSFT does that are morally
reprehensible, and there are software misfeatures in MSFT products, but
simply defining what is good by arguing that what MSFT does is always "bad"
will just make people look silly.
In similar manner, there are BSD advocates that "bash" the GPL for the
"misfeatures" they consider it has; this does little to cause people to have
sympathy or to consider what things are *GOOD* about BSD or BSD licensing.
It is certainly true that people are rallying around Linux as an "Anything
But Microsoft" phenomenon; we must do considerably better than that in order
for Linux to not fail.
>C. There is also a very real economic motive for people to learn Linux,
>as it is a powerful OS that is ideally suited for the "wired world" that
>we now live in.
It may be argued that it's the best option available; I could imagine
improvements that could represent aspects of "more ideally suited" systems.
Some may get implemented; Linux may already be too rigidly designed to allow
others.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
From: Vic Rosenthal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: kppp can't resolve addresses (newbie q)
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:42:51 -0700
I'm trying to access the net with Caldera Open Linux 5.2. I have set up kppp to
call and log in to my isp (I can do it either as 'script-based' or PAP). This
appears to succeed. I have entered the dns addresses provided by my isp into
the kppp setup, but when I try to ping anything other than localhost, ping just
hangs.
Any suggestions?
Vic
------------------------------
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hans Lambermont)
Subject: Re: is there any OpenSource video app projects ?
Crossposted-To: linux.dev.apps
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:16:02 GMT
[Posted and mailed]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Zeljko Blace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is there any OpenSource video app projects ?
If you mean video-telephony, then yes, but i know only one, it will be a
part of the OpenH323 project. (which reached 'first noise', audio
recently). See http://www.openh323.org/
There must be other video application projects out there, but i don't
know them.
Hans Lambermont
--
http://hans.mypage.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob Bos)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: WORDS OF WISDOM!! Upgrading RedHat 5.1 to 2.2.X Kernel
Date: 23 May 1999 19:03:17 GMT
David Pendell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Why should I have to go spend another $50 bucks so that I can upgrade
: something that should be upgradable to begin with. It's all Linux and as
: far as I am concerned I should be able to run any kernel that I want to.
: Besides why should I buy a product that comes from a history 'dead
: ends'? As for my reasons for upgrading what difference does it make. I
: have some good reasons for upgrading and that is all that matters.
I didn't have any trouble upgrading 5.1 to kernel 2.2.9; just took a bit
of dinking around with startup scripts, software upgrading, stuff like
that. Just grab all the packages at the Red Hat 6.0 mirrors that look
like they're remotely related to kernelstuff, install, upgrade the kernel,
and then dink about with startup scripts until everything looks okay.
: Bill Unruh wrote:
: >
: > In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> David Pendell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: >
: > >RedHat has created an interesting problem in upgrading RH 5.1 to the
: > >2.2.X kernel.
: >
: > 5.1 was never intended to be upgraded to the 2.2 kernels. That was
: > precisely one of the features of 5.2.
: >
: > Besides why do you want to "upgrade" 5.1 to the 2.2 kernels?
: >
: > ...
: > >This would not bother me much except that RedHat has chosen NOT to
: > >support 5.1 anymore. (The RPMS for the 2.2.X upgrade are for 5.2 ONLY.)
: >
: > Huh? the Upgrades are for 5.2 because it was 5.2 which was designed to
: > be upgradable. 5.1 was not. Besides, 5.2 IS the upgrade to mke 5.1 ready
: > for the 2.2 kernels.
: >
: > >This means that anyone who wants to upgrade has to do it manually and
: > >will run into this problem.
: >
: > Get 6.0 and use that! Why do you want to upgrade? Why are you resistant
: > to getting the 5.2 distro, and using that? Why don't you complain that
: > 4.3 (or 2.0) are not 2.2 ready?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT the best web platform?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:13:03 GMT
On Sun, 23 May 1999 17:38:38 GMT, Anthony Ord
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>On 22 May 1999 20:50:09 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(Christopher Browne) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 May 1999 19:42:17 GMT, Anthony Ord
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>I just bunged Squid as a front-end to Apache (one of the
>>>options) and everything goes swimmingly.
>>>
>>>I made it so it just caches dynamic content though.
>>
>>Wouldn't you want it to cache static content too?
>
>Why? Apache and Squid (sounds like a duo on a Saturday
>morning cartoon...) reside on the same machine. Are you
>telling me Squid can hoover a duplicate file up off the disk
>faster than Apache?
I suppose not.
>>And how "swimmingly" is that?
>>- Does that mean that "it functions OK"?
>
>Of course.
I should have said
"- Does that *merely* mean that "it functions OK"?"
to which the answer apparently would have been "no."
>>- Or that this increases performance substantially?
>
>I don't know for the static stuff - probably not much - but
>you can try it.
>
>About 1,000% to 18,000% for the dynamically generated parts
>(depends on the amount needing to be generated and its
>size). It also stops my CPU being pegged at 6.xx (or
>thereabouts) for about five minutes.
>
>Though your milage on *your* Real World (tm) problem will
>definitely vary. I'm not Mindcraft...
And I'm sure you're glad that you're not. :-)
>>If the latter, that suggests that Squid+Apache = *very* good thing...
>
>It is IMHO. Try it. Both are free, and you can also remove
>Squid without any problems if you don't like it.
% ps aex | grep squid
361 ? S 2:58 squid.novm
>Remember though, if you are generating dynamic content
>remember to put in the appropriate header fields (like
>expires and Last-Modified) and also to remember that Apache
>(by default AFAIR) stops things being cached. This needs to
>be changed in the Apache config file.
OK...
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
From: "Steven K.I" <"The Phat Impala SS CreW"@san.rr.com (not for e-mail)>
Reply-To: Don't, ask, me!!!!!
Subject: My Windows is dead...and I need it!!
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:09:51 -0700
I have Windows 98 on a 10 gig and RedHat 6.0 with KDE on a 4.3 gig.
I decided to put LILO on the MBR where Win98 is installed but when
I decided to test Windows out I wasn't able to load Windows...somehow
Linux must of "destroyed" Windows 98. Any ideas on how to get Win98 back?
I have re-installed Linux and KDE, but Win98 still refuses to load.
Command.com is apparently "missing" even though I boot with a dos boot disk
and it is still there.
(Luckily, I have this laptop to work with. :)
Thanks
Steven K.I.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthew Bafford)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: make install
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:07:03 GMT
On 23 May 1999 13:22:21 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
held some poor sysadmin at gun point while typing in the following:
: Is there any standard way to make log file when I "make install"?
If you don't want to see it while it's happening:
(assuming bash)
make install >&yourfile.log
If you want to see it while it happens:
make install 2>&1 | tee yourfile.log
: Thanks in advance.
HTH,
--Matthew
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Q: freezing up?
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:30:26 +0000
==============1251826B67D1283021268116
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I find if I leave an X sesion going overnight on the console the pc TOTALLY freezes
if no X session or a session is active via a remote xterm everything is ok.
I'm running RH 5.2 with an Ensonic pci sound, digiboard, ne2000 comp. ethernet and s3
video. (no wallpaper or screen savers)
Any emailed advice or help would be appreciated. I've done a fresh install and the
same thing happens.
Thanks--
===============================
Quest Jewellery Manufacturing Quality Handcrafted Sterling Earrings
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Online Wholesale Catalog
www.accesscable.net/~quest
===============================
Commercial and/or unsolicited email and/or spam will be processed at
a $500 handling fee. Unsolicited sending constitutes acceptance.
==============1251826B67D1283021268116
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<pre> I find if I leave an X sesion going overnight on the console the pc TOTALLY
freezes if no X session or a session is active via a remote xterm everything is
ok.</pre>
<pre>I'm running RH 5.2 with an Ensonic pci sound, digiboard, ne2000 comp. ethernet
and s3 video. (no wallpaper or screen savers)</pre>
<pre>Any emailed advice or help would be appreciated. I've done a fresh install and
the same thing happens.</pre>
<pre></pre>
<pre> Thanks--
===============================
Quest Jewellery Manufacturing Quality Handcrafted
Sterling Earrings
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Online Wholesale Catalog
www.accesscable.net/~quest
===============================
Commercial and/or unsolicited email and/or spam will be processed at
a $500 handling fee. Unsolicited sending constitutes acceptance.</pre>
</html>
==============1251826B67D1283021268116==
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Juergen Heinzl)
Subject: Re: Hi, am having trouble with cpio-2.4.2 on S.u.S.E. 6.0
Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:57:51 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Leif Erlingsson wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
> this program, cpio-2.4.2, as delivered by S.u.S.E. or
>even as compiled by myself on the S.u.S.E. 6.0 platform, is
>exhibiting buggy behaviour. The exact same source compiled by
>myself on other operating systems is not. The problem is with
>the -c flag. With libc.so.5 there is no such problem.
Known bug, sorry for shouting but ...
DO NOT USE -c WITH CPIO ON A LIBC6 SYSTEM
... because your archives are unusable. In other words, if
you are in need of a backup after 6 months you are in trouble.
[...]
>Other than running under libc 5, do you have a work-around?
>Mabye a patch to libc 6 or possibly, if this is the culprit,
>to libnsl (that is also used by S.u.S.E. 6.0 cpio)?
[...]
Yes. I even sent a patch regarding that to S.u.S.E. weeks ago and
after that did some searching ... the problem is known for 1+ year.
It looks like cpio is not maintained anymore and even worse no-one
seems to care here. Since cpio is used to create backups this is
really bad.
You might consider using some other format for the time being,
like -H crc which is safe or see below.
>I have asked before about this, and at that time simply got the
>responses that "it is known", and "it is only a problem with the
>-c flag". While I didn't know #1, I was fully aware of #2, and
>I still need this to work on all Unix-platforms I "touch". So I
>need the fix.
Here is another one. Consider it safe, it does the same as mine
does (and there are probably more variations) ...
You might have to apply it using cut & paste since vendors apply
their own patches so the line numbers are probably wrong.
A short test is create an archive of, say / only. Just the directory
/ will do, no files or so. If cpio -i then shows up crap you know.
/* -------------------------------- 8< --------------------------- */
*** copyout.c~ Mon May 25 21:09:26 1998
--- copyout.c Tue May 26 12:52:14 1998
***************
*** 112,122 ****
error (0, 0, "%s: truncating inode number", file_hdr->c_name);
sprintf (ascii_header,
! "%06o%06o%06lo%06lo%06lo%06lo%06lo%06o%011lo%06lo%011lo",
! file_hdr->c_magic & 0xFFFF, dev & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_ino & 0xFFFF, file_hdr->c_mode & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_uid & 0xFFFF, file_hdr->c_gid & 0xFFFF,
! file_hdr->c_nlink & 0xFFFF, rdev & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_mtime, file_hdr->c_namesize & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_filesize);
tape_buffered_write (ascii_header, out_des, 76L);
--- 112,122 ----
error (0, 0, "%s: truncating inode number", file_hdr->c_name);
sprintf (ascii_header,
! "%06ho%06lo%06lo%06lo%06lo%06lo%06lo%06lo%011lo%06lo%011lo",
! file_hdr->c_magic & 0xFFFF, (long) dev & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_ino & 0xFFFF, file_hdr->c_mode & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_uid & 0xFFFF, file_hdr->c_gid & 0xFFFF,
! file_hdr->c_nlink & 0xFFFF, (long) rdev & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_mtime, file_hdr->c_namesize & 0xFFFF,
file_hdr->c_filesize);
tape_buffered_write (ascii_header, out_des, 76L);
======================================================================
/* -------------------------------- >8 --------------------------- */
Cheers,
Juergen
--
\ Real name : Jürgen Heinzl \ no flames /
\ EMail Private : [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ send money instead /
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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