Let's get some facts straight: False: "the board, case, SD all cost about $145 if you buy them from PCEngines."
PC Engines doesn't sell SD cards, so we'll leave those out of the discussion for now. List price on an APU from PC Engines: $136 (2GB) or $155 (4GB) List price on case from PC Engines: $9.30 List price on power supply from PC Engines: $4.50 Total: $149.80 (2GB) or $168.80 (4GB) plus shipping and duties from Switzerland. Netgate price on 2GB APU kit (no storage): $179 ($29 markup vs DIY) Netgate price on 4GB APU kit (no storage): $199 ($31 markup vs DIY) Plus shipping from Texas. Netgate offer a fully-assembled, supported version of the APU for $299 (2GB) or $319 (4GB), these also include a 8GB SanDisk Extreme SDHC card (same can be added to the kits, above.) Best"Google Shopping" price on a 8GB SanDisk Extreme SDHC card is $11.25, but you won't succeed in buying from him. Next best price is $12. So $161 (2GB) or $181 (4GB), if you chose to DIY. Remember, you'll still have to pay shipping from Switzerland and US import duties. (So do we, but we do a LOT more volume than you.) Now, it actually does take time to program the SD card, assemble the unit, test it, source and track the raw parts, etc. Getting the heat transfer material and spreader in the right place takes time and know-how. Moreover, the transfer pad doesn't really permit "do-overs". Maybe you'll get it right the first time. Maybe. Getting it right the second time means a reduction in heat transfer. Further, the version of pfSense from the Netgate and pfSense stores has features which do not appear elsewhere. Oh, and we laser engrave the cases. (Port marks only on the "kit") Finally, many people will not work very long for no pay, so the support (should you want/need it) does cost something to supply. The people providing that support have forgotten more about pfSense than you'll ever know. In any case, as you and everyone else can plainly see, the markup is nowhere near $250, as you have emphatically and repeatedly stated. One must therefore conclude that you have an agenda. This is still extremely offensive: > My fleecing comment is based on the lack of a statement that says if you > don’t want the support you can look at this model, In any case, basic math skills will show that your claim of a $250 "fleecing" is egregiously wrong: $319-$181 is $138. $299-$161 is also $138 (hmm!) Remember you'll have to import from Switzerland, assemble the unit, and answer questions for a year, take returns, develop the software and have something left over to pay for the Christmas party out of that $138. Just to emphasize: Without the support and assembly, the markup .vs DIY is $30 +/- $1. And here again, you've not paid to import from Switzerland, which are not costs you'll avoid. I am left to conclude that you're either lying, or can't perform basic arithmetic. ..... Now, about the list. I try to keep this list vendor free. Your actions negate that effort. Telling me what to do with my list, hosted by my company, about a project that I have supported from the very start with time and money, is a short path to the ban list. Got it? -- Jim > On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:35, Ryan Coleman <ryanjc...@me.com> wrote: > > Actually the margin is more like $250 - the board, case, SD all cost about > $145 if you buy them from PCEngines. > My fleecing comment is based on the lack of a statement that says if you > don’t want the support you can look at this model, or give an option to opt > out of the support. Also calling it simply APU4 implies that it is 3 versions > BETTER than their APU1C4 - it should be APU4-KIT or BUILT or something like > that to differentiate between them. > > I love my Alix. The base parts is a good price. The extra cost without other > information is not a good business practice and is, indeed, trying to get > people to spend more money on something that they don’t have to (not saying > they shouldn’t) is bad. > > I never ripped into him for that - he publicly told me to take it off the > list when he should have privately. In fact I thought the message WAS private > until my phone lit up with responses. > I’ve been on mailing lists since 1996 and I’ve never been called out like > that publicly by a moderator without advance warning. > > — > ryan > > >> On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:30, Walter Parker <walt...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I see a few things going on here: >> >> From the Netgate site, the difference between the APU1C and the APU1C4 DIY >> kits is 2GB vs 4GB. >> The Kits are $179 and $199 and include the board, a case and power plug. >> >> The kit from PCEngines is just the board (I don't see any that says it comes >> with a plug or a case). The plugs on PCEngines are not in stock. >> Some of the cases are out of stock. >> >> Prior emails on this list have indicated that the older versions of the case >> (for the alix) didn't quite fit the APU and therefore had a thermial problem >> due to poor contact. The Netgate cases are the new style that doesn't have >> the problem. >> >> The assembled systems from Netgate are $299, which means the price breakdown >> is: >> $179 for the Board, case and plug (PC Engines price for all of this is $150 >> if you order more than 500 units) >> $22 for the flash card >> $99 One year of pfSense support >> >> That leaves Netgate with a whole $6 over the price of the DIY kit (which was >> <$30 more than PC Engines, but to get PC Engine's price, you have to buy >> $75,000 worth of hardware). >> >> >> I bought my Alix from netgate and it was a good price. This new item is a >> good price. You are unlikely to find the hardware for less money once you >> include the $99 add on from pfSense support. >> >> I did find Ryan's initial email to be a bit rude. What is it with people >> that assume that because a company wants to make a profit that they are >> fleecing people? The $6 margin on a $299 product hardly seem like a rip off >> (my time is worth a lot more than that). >> >> And you get a tested system with a warranty. >> >> Look at the prices for the Intel systems, they tend to run double once you >> include all the features. >> >> >> And have some class, Jim is one of the good guys, doing great work with >> Netgate and pfSense. Ripping on him because he asked that sales types >> questions for a vendor product be sent to the vendor is not a bad request >> (the pfSense vendors do read this list). >> >> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Jim Thompson <j...@smallworks.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am. I have. >>> >>> I'm trying to be patient and professional. >>> >>> > On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:47, Sean Colins <s...@corequick.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > Who is the list mom and why is he/she not responding to this? >>> > >>> >> On Jul 22, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjc...@me.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson <j...@netgate.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please stay on topic. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Jim >>> >>> >>> >>>>> On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall <pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc> >>> >>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: >>> >>>>> I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal >>> >>>>> paste >>> >>>>> allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge >>> >>>>> and >>> >>>>> the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact >>> >>>>> with >>> >>>>> the case? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' >>> >>>> thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks >>> >>>> to both the chips and the base of the chassis. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is >>> >>>> about 22C at this time of year. >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held >>> >>>>> in >>> >>>>> place by 'screws and hex nuts'? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, >>> >>>> not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the >>> >>>>> presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from >>> >>>>> outside, after the installation? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not >>> >>>> accessible externally after installation. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for >>> >>>> anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in >>> >>>> conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Kind regards, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Chris >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> This email is made from 100% recycled electrons >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> List mailing list >>> >>>> List@lists.pfsense.org >>> >>>> http://cp.mcafee.com/d/1jWVIe6zqb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CQjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYr3d8KpF1D >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> List mailing list >>> >>> List@lists.pfsense.org >>> >>> http://cp.mcafee.com/d/FZsS921J5yXBNMUQsII6XCNOqr0VVBYSejjod7bMUsr79FI3DCn3oVdd-ZT7ztfS0aJmfyPsH5undSH7NpKlyLbC_YxtSPb_nVN4sCVtXHTbFECzB_zhOesd7dQkumKzp55mXbfaxVZicHs3jqpJATvAn3hOYyyODtUTsSjDdqymovaAWsIXjUk_w0e2qKMM-l9OwXn3VkCrfBipsxlK5LE2zVkDjBDqv2DY01dLKnodwLQzh0qmRDhzUkYQKCy0eAWXYvxrPh0g-pz_wq810b1dwQgr10Qg20m2q8AMroudVHDmk1gq >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> List mailing list >>> >> List@lists.pfsense.org >>> >> http://cp.mcafee.com/d/5fHCN0q43qb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CSjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYriex-wjKS >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > List mailing list >>> > List@lists.pfsense.org >>> > https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List mailing list >>> List@lists.pfsense.org >>> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list >> >> >> >> -- >> The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of >> zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. 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