When it was first built: whatever similar to the mandora Ms. in Brussels. Galant material mainly. The instrument fell into disrepair, and had its top redone in the 19th century fashion, bridge moved. And now: IT DOESN"T HAVE ENOUGH NECK FOR THE TYPICAL GIULIANI/SOR PAP. So it was MOST LIKELY used in some kind of repertoire IM VOLKSTON. RT ______________ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv
> And what do you think they played on these instruments if not guitar music > (and please don't say 'folk music') > > Rgds > > M > > Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Only in the same sense as other lutes rebuilt into guitars in that era. In > other words: NOT. > Look at the Jauch in Budapest. It has the same "adaptation", but it's no > guitar. > RT > ______________ > Roman M. Turovsky > http://polyhymnion.org/swv > >> >> Thank you Roman, >> >> in short - a guitar >> >> M >> >> >> Roman Turovsky wrote: >> A lautenguitarre of sorts, REMARCABLY with original double-strung set-up. >> The main visual difference between gallichones and lautengitarren is the >> BRIDGE POSITION, lute-like for the former, guitar-like for the latter. >> The instrument in question has overall proportions and provenance of a >> gallichone, but with that obvious "improvement". >> RT >> ______________ >> Roman M. Turovsky >> http://polyhymnion.org/swv >> >>> In that case - what do you think it was converted to? >>> >>> M >>> >>> Roman Turovsky wrote: >>>> I agree this is a possibility; as you know, I think the weight of evidence >>>> is >>>> otherwise. But are you seriously suggesting that this was made or converted >>>> to its present state in the period when the Gallichon/Colachon was played >>>> in >>>> the 18thC? >>>> Martyn >>> No. I'd say it was bastardized sometime into the 19th century. >>> RT >>> >>> >>>> Roman Turovsky wrote: >>>>> In my opinion >>>> WHich is a bit "leaky" as we say in the old country. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> how it could be used is more important than what you call it. >>>>> Depending on how you tune a six-course instrument, it could function as >>>>> a guitar, requinto (actually a "requinto" lute in this case), renaissance >>>>> lute, >>>>> a laud, or a mandolino lombardo ottavo. >>>> FYI, Hoffmann was a very important figure in the history of lute, and there >>>> is no reason to inflict on him any abuse by linguistic daftness. >>>> >>>> This was a gallichone (100% certainty, look at the neck and pegbox), which >>>> suffered bridge displacement which is sadly not atypical. Both Budapest >>>> Jauch and Brunner baroque lutes suffered this at some point during the 19th >>>> century. >>>> RT >>>> -- >>>> http://polyhymnion.org/torban >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Martyn Hodgson >>>>> Sent: Mar 16, 2005 1:05 AM >>>>> To: Mathias R? >>>>> Cc: Lute Net >>>>> Subject: Re: Hoffmann Mandora/Gallichon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your comments Mathias, but: >>>>> >>>>> - are you not aware that guitars were made in lute shape in the 19thC (and >>>>> in >>>>> other shapes as well for that matter - eg lyre guitar). >>>>> >>>>> - defining a guitar as a 'shallow bodied' instrument is surely asking for >>>>> trouble - probably better to relate to musical practice - ie lute-guitars >>>>> and >>>>> similar played music written for ordinary guitars. Even well into the last >>>>> century it was possible to buy sheet music asking for 'laute' or >>>>> 'gitarre'. >>>>> I >>>>> have before me an original edition (c 1930) of 'Leonardo de Call/Notturno >>>>> Op89/fur Flote(Geige), Bratsche and Gitarre(Laute)' published by Chr >>>>> Friedrich Vieweg >>>>> /BerlinLichterfelds. Interestingly, the cover has two figures playing >>>>> Lauten >>>>> (not Gitarren). >>>>> >>>>> I therefore stick to my opinion that this is probably a guitar conversion. >>>>> You >>>>> may, of course, hold an entirely different view but perhaps it would be >>>>> useful to support it with evidence rather than unsubstantiated comment. >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> >>>>> Martyn >>>>> >>>>> "Mathias R?" wrote: >>>>>>> My view is that it is most likely a guitar >>>>> >>>>> guitars have shallow bodies, by definition, or so I'm told. Whatsoever >>>>> this is, it is not a guitar. >>>>> >>>>>>> (or rather late 19thC german lute/guitar) conversion direct from a >>>>> lute. >>>>> >>>>> wandervogel lutes (if that is what you meant to say) have single >>>>> strings, not courses (i.e. double strings) >>>>> >>>>>>> There are numerous examples of 18thC Colachons/mandoras (see Gill et >>>>> als) >>>>> >>>>> indeed. Why so much guesswork if the probable is so obvious. >>>>> >>>>>> I would have thought so, if not for the pegbox, which is rather elegant, >>>>>> and >>>>>> entirely uncharacteristic of the Wandervogels. >>>>> >>>>> yes, indeed. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Mathias >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>> >>>>> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >>>> -- >>> >>> >>> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >> >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >> -- > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
