Dear Rob: Sorry for the delay in response to your comments. I wish I had more time. I'll try to offer some clarity to my prior post. > 1. How can you say that you 'can state this without reservation' that> > 'everyone in the sixteenth century who was fortunate enough to lay hands on> > a lute was first taught to sing'? Everyone? But I'm being picky. You> > probably mean 'most people'? Impossible to know for sure. You're correct that it is impossible to say for sure - but I am almost 110 percent certain. The problem is that we tend to look backwards in time without a sense of the context of historical events, constraints and practices. Today, we decide to learn to play the lute, and we find one. In the sixteenth century, there were really two general types of musicians: gentry and professional. The more priviliged player always had instruction in singing before playing an instrument. Professional musicians were typically children who showed a modicum of talent, and pressed into service at chapel and court - as singers. Instruction in playing instruments was secondary. This is just the way it was, but you don't have to take my word for it. > 2. The important part of your useful Zarlino quotation, for me at least, was> > 'progressions absolutely intolerable in composition'. This clearly divides> > the matter into two seemingly polar camps: Performance Practice and> > Compositional Practice. I guess Zarlino was a composer?! In practice, there really was and is no difference between composing and improvising. Yes, there were music theorists who prided themselves on being scientists rather than practitioners. But every musician who was instructed to sing was instructed in the proper mutation of the hexachord and the rules of counterpoint. > 3. Your phrase, 'Personally, I think this fantasia has its own calm, quiet> > integrity and really does not need finger ornaments to tart it up.' I find> > interesting. I have never saught to 'tart up' a composition by using> > ornaments. Nothing could be further from my mind. The term 'finger> > ornaments' is also interesting. I guess I _have_ sought to 'tart up' a piece with a grace here and there. Sometimes it just seems appropriate to add a little warble, as the music in the Capirola ms shows. By finger ornaments, I mean what is known as a grace, as opposed to a division. > 4. I'm not sure of your contention that a 'full, round, warm tone' would a)> > cloud the polyphony, and b) is not possible (your implication?) on a lute. Certainly, this is a matter of opinion. However, most good guitars have a rounder, warmer tone than most lutes. Bob Lundberg once told me that he thought a good lute had more in common with the banjo, with the belly acting as a membrane, than with the guitar with its harp-like soundboard construction. Warm tone is certainly possible on a lute but not as easy with its more sensitive response, less sustain, and the double stringing. I'm sure you've noticed the difference playing a single-strung theorbo, which is a baroque instrument. > Anyway, your stance is a common one today, and might well have been common> > in the 16thC, which is not to denigrate it in any way. I played Fuenllana> > fantasias without decoration because they just didn't seem to move me to do> > so. So I am not contra anything you say, but I do feel that the relationship> > between ornamentation and phrasing is one that is little discussed, either> > historically or today, possibly because it is difficult to put into words. I'm sure you followed your good instincts with Fuenllana. His music is a prime example of polyphony with clear lines that don't necessarily need embellishment. It would be, as Martin mentioned, an interesting experiment to try adding graces to a fantasia. In fact, some of the English ms. versions of Francesco fantasias have written out graces. That would serve as an easy point of comparison. > Coming from a different angle...I spent some time in Istanbul studying with> > the State Orchestra - traditional Turkish classical music, one might say.> > Everyone had the same score, treble clef, but they all decorated it in their> > own way. 20 people doing the same thing differently. And it worked> > beautifully, although it took me over a month to really start appreciating> > it. I bet. > There is also the belief by many scholars that larger-scale part music,> > ten-part masses, for instance, were a product of the tradition of vocal> > improvising. The style still exisits in some west coast islands in Scotland,> > and elsewhere in the world. Some might say it sounds cacophanous, some say> > it sounds beautiful. I tried it with ten of my students: I got them to sing> > the first line of the Lord's Prayer starting on a C and finding their way to> > a G. After a few terrible attempts, they started listening to each other,> > and it started to sound very convincing. There is an account by Giraldus Cambrensis, _Descripto Cambriae_, 1198, that describes improvised polyphony among Welsh musicians: "When they make music together, they sing their tunes not in unison as is done elsewhere, but in parts with many simultaneous modes and phrases. Therefore, in a group of singers (which one very often meets with in Wales) your will hear as many melodies as there are people, and a distinct variety of parts; yet they all accord in one consonant and properly constituted composition...This specialty of this race is no product of trained musicians, but was acquired through long-standing popular practices. [_History of Western Music_, edited by Frederick Sternfeld, (New York: Praeger, 1973), p. 264] > The point is, singers DID improvise in the 16thC, and there is a long> > tradition before and after that century of improvising florid lines, away> > from the written score. I'm just wondering out loud if we shouldn't do> > something similar? Of course people improvised in the 16th century, and I > improvise in this idiom because I am easily bored. The point, again, was is > it necessary to add ornaments to an intabulation? My answer is to follow my > informed taste, and try not to offend. Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL --
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