Hi all,
Just out of curiosity, what is the objection to the term "brise"? Although
somewhat inelegant, it seems a fairly good and useful description of the the
style. "Luthe," while used in its own day, isn't very helpful to those of us
today who want to know more about what the lute players actually did. As times
change, terminology is constantly undergoing a transformation: even "baroque"
was not a term in use in the days of the Baroque.
Chris
--- On Mon, 11/30/09, Jaroslaw Lipski <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl> wrote:
> From: Jaroslaw Lipski <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Terminology: brise
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:03 AM
> I don't think that making statements
> on the basis that somewhere there could
> be some evidence is a good idea. We need proofs to support
> our theories. So
> until we get one, I can easily call this term modern, which
> is actually
> based on the data that is available for most of us.
>
> JL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Tayler" <vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 11:22 PM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Terminology: brise
>
>
> The fact that it has not yet been traced back
> does not make it a modern term. Articles which
> say that it cannot be traced do not even have a
> footnote saying where they looked, they should
> have just said they could not find it and listed
> the sources. I doubt that all the sources have
> been searched for it. In addition, the term
> brisee means, among other things, plucked in the
> 17th century, so it must have been used to
> describe instruments like the harp and the lute.
> Dictionaries give plucked as a definition as
> early as ca1600. There may be even parallel
> compounds like "accents brisees" that people have
> not even looked for. Some of these may be related
> terms, such as cadence brisee which is quite
> early. I suspect there is a more than even chance
> an earlier useage of the term will surface, and
> then we can debate if luthe and brise are the same :)
> As far as the term luthe, it would be better if
> we can find out what the lute players called it
> as the harpsichordists may have used a different term.
> dt
>
> At 06:24 AM 11/29/2009, you wrote:
> >Yes, good point, "style brise" is a modern term. It's
> better to use "style
> >luthe" instead if we really have to use anything at
> all.
> >
> >JL
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Probert"
> <probe...@gmail.com>
> >To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> >Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 10:34 AM
> >Subject: [LUTE] Terminology: brise
> >
> >
> >
> >The recent thread on Saint Luc brought up the term
> "brisé" (final
> >e-accute) that I had not read before. So I went
> to Groves and found
> >that "Style brisé" refers to a broken appeggiation
> style, which, in
> >reference to early French Baroque lute music, I am
> familiar with.
> >
> >Interestingly, that term, "Style brisé", can't be
> traced back further
> >than 1928 and one La Laurencie's "Les luthistes"
> (Paris, 1928).
> >Apparently, back in the day, Couperin referred to the
> technique as
> >'luthé'. Thing is, he was referring to
> harpsichordists using the lute
> >style, not a lutenist using that style.
> >
> >So now we are describing a lute technique using a
> keyboard style name
> >that was originally used to describe a lute
> style. Excellent!
> >
> >. mark
> >
> >
> >
> >To get on or off this list see list information at
> >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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