How would a gilded rose affect the sound of the instrument? Though the gilding would surely be thin, wouldn't that extra mass affect harmonic responses, the way a wire affects a string in gimped gut?
Leonard On 6/22/13 7:27 AM, "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear David, > You are probably right - forget the papal rose line. Though perhaps the > rose reference is some personal link known to those around G at the > time. But perhaps a gilded rose is likely - I'm just cautious about > proceeding from speculation to certainty............ > It does sound, tho', as if the thing had been nicked! > regards > Martyn > __________________________________________________________________ > > From: David Van Edwards <[email protected]> > To: Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, 22 June 2013, 10:30 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: The "golden" rose > Dear Martyn, > Thank you very much for the reference, it would have taken me ages to > find starting from the beginning!! > But apropos your ideas of The Golden Rose Lute referring to the Papal > golden rose there are these words following the Gaultier piece quoted: > "The first part of the lesson representeth the enquiry after the lute, > and kind promises for those that shall give any notice of it; the > second part representeth first the trouble and hurly-burly of the > seeking after the lute; and the conclusion is a complaint of the loss > of the lute that can not be found. " > Which does sound to me rather specific to an instrument. > Of course it could be symbolic in some obscure way but the references > to the papal golden rose you sent do not contain any idea of loss, > rather the reverse, since the rose itself seems to refer to the > resurrection and the blessings that follow. Any loss of those would > rather undermine the whole edifice of Christianity! > Best wishes, > David > > Dear David, > The piece appears in Chapter XV (f.69-87) of the MS 'Concerning > the art > of setting Lessons uppon the Lute'. > I'm not sure if you'll find anything to elaborate on what > precisely was > meant by the 'golden rose' lute (ie an actual gilded rose or > possibly > some other association), since it says nothing about the 'Golden > Rose > Lute' itself but merely precedes the relevant piece with the > words: 'The loss of the golden rose lute; a lesson of Old > Gaultier upon > the goat's tuning' > Incidentally, you may find Dart's modern transcription (which is > accurate as far as I can see) easier to read; it appeared in the > 1958 > Galpin Soc journal. > regards > Martyn > > __________________________________________________________________ > From: Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> > To: Lute Dmth <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, 21 June 2013, 16:37 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: The "golden" rose > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: Martyn Hodgson <[1][email protected]> > To: David Van Edwards <[2][email protected]> > Cc: 'LuteNet list' <[3][email protected]> > Sent: Friday, 21 June 2013, 8:16 > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: The "golden" rose > Dear David, > I was under the, perhaps wholly mistaken, impression that 'The > loss > of > the golden rose lute' found in the Burwell MS was some other > association rather then the actual gilding of the lute rose. > For > example it could be linked to the papal rose of the name, see > [1][4]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06629a.htm > or > [2][5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rose > Or maybe other associations from antiquity. Just a > thought................... > regards > Martyn > > __________________________________________________________________ > From: David Van Edwards <[6][email protected]> > To: Luca Manassero <[7][email protected]> > Cc: 'LuteNet list' <[8][email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013, 20:13 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: The "golden" rose > Dear Luca, > Yes there are 8 surviving lutes that I know of with gilded > roses. > 1. The 16th century lute by Wolfgang Wolf > currently in Fuessen Museum has a gilded rose. > Impossible to say if it is original as it has > certainly been roughly gilded since then. > 2.Lute by Jakob Langenwalder [Fuessen 1627] in Kremsmuenster, > Benediktinerstift > 3.Lute by Georg Greiff [Fuessen 1590] in > Darmstadt, Hessisches Landesmuseum Kg 67: 103 > (Orig M.I. 29) > 4. Miniature lute by Magno Dieffobruchar, Venice, > c.1600 in Paris, Musee de Cluny 2092 > 5. Lute by Stefan Pradter, Prague 1675 in Innsbruck, Schloss > Ambras, > 622 > 6. Lute by Basilio Smit, Milan, in Fuessen, Museum > der Stadt Fuessen, 4308 has a gilded rim to its > triple rose. > 7. Lute by Magnus Hellmer 1609 Fuessen, in > Darmstadt, Hessisches Landesmuseum, Kg 67:104 > > 8. Anonymous lute in Bologna, Museo Civico Medievale, 1814 > Best wishes, > David > At 16:11 +0200 20/6/13, Luca Manassero wrote: > > Dear list, > > a few years ago I saw pictures of a lute built by a > well > known > > british lutemaker and showing a really beautiful golden > rose. > > > Baroque lutenists certainly know about the Allemande of > Ennemond > > Gaultier (Vieux Gaultier) "La roze d'or" also known as > "The loss > of the > > golden rose lute". > > My question is: have you any news (or iconographc > evidence) of > > (original) lutes with a golden rose? > > Thank you in advance, > > Luca > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at > >[3][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > The Smokehouse, > 6 Whitwell Road, > Norwich, NR1 4HB > England. > Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 > Website: [4][10]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk > -- > References > 1. [11]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06629a.htm > 2. [12]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rose > 3. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 4. [14]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ > -- > References > 1. mailto:[email protected] > 2. mailto:[email protected] > 3. mailto:[email protected] > 4. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06629a.htm > 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rose > 6. mailto:[email protected] > 7. mailto:[email protected] > 8. mailto:[email protected] > 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 10. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ > 11. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06629a.htm > 12. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rose > 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 14. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ > >-- > > The Smokehouse, > 6 Whitwell Road, > Norwich, NR1 4HB > England. > > Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 > Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk > > -- >
