Sorry Martin, what is the "ML" lute book? Jurgen
---------------------------------- “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.” Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:23 PM, Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: > Dear All, > > Just from memory - Besard insists on thumb-out technique as being the > best, but allows that people with short thumbs may find thumb-inside > easier. I find it inconceivable that he would change hand position > during a piece, and see no reason why you should not use thumb-index > alternation in fast runs with thumb out - flamenco guitarists do it all > the time. > > The fingering dots in the ML lute book (c.1640) give an interesting > indication of this. In Dowland's fantasia (Poulton 1, ML ff.14v-15r) > all runs are marked to be played middle-index, except where a running > passage has infrequent bass notes (f.15, second system) which have no > double dots (meaning middle), so presumably to be be played > thumb-index. Once the bass notes become more frequent (and the speed > of the treble movement stays the same, 3rd and 4th systems) the > middle-index alternation returns. Then a fast cadential formula (end of > system 5) lacks any double dots and is therefore thumb-index. > > I'm sure there are many other examples like this. Nigel North's recent > talk at the Lute Society gave many interesting examples of RH fingerings. > > Martin > > On 06/03/2019 08:06, jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote: > > > Sorry: 'original', naturally! > > Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone. > > Originalnachricht > > Von: jo.lued...@t-online.de > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 07:49 > > An: Lute net > > Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky > > Dear Alan, dear Jurgen, > > There is something to that effect in all 'oroginal' versions of Besard's > > instructions, that is: 1603 and 1617. I do not remember if ye text > > englished contains the passage... > > Best > > Joachim > > Originalnachricht > > Von: Alain Veylit > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 04:32 > > Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Cc: Lute net > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky > > Jurgen, > > It's been a while and I was quoting from memory... but I am sure I saw > > it somewhere - perhaps the instructions translated in English in the > > Varietie of Lute Lessons? > > Or maybe the use of dots in Thesaurus Harmonicus ... > > Alain > > On 3/4/19 11:11 PM, Jurgen Frenz wrote: > > > > > It would be totally excellent if you'd find out where Besard made that > > > suggestion. > > > Thanks, > > > jurgen > > > > > > “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.” > > > Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐. > > > On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:40 AM, Alain Veylit > > > al...@musickshandmade.com wrote: > > > > > > > That's odd because I remember O'Dette's advice for the left-hand pinky: > > > > plant it vertically on the string instead of laying it flat - which > > > > requires more effort. That should mean his left-hand little finger can > > > > bend... Not a conclusive proof for the right hand little finger but ... > > > > For Renaissance lute, if I am not mistaken, the right-hand little finger > > > > is supposed to be parallel to the sound board, just lightly brushing on > > > > it, and it should remain extended. > > > > Anybody with a good explanation as to how additional basses would alter > > > > the right hand position? If I recall, Besard still argued for a mixed > > > > technique, thumb-under for fast runs and thumb over for whatever else > > > > (chords). I think it is logical that increasing dedication of the thumb > > > > to the bass strings does account for the shift in right-hand position, > > > > and when you think about it, it is not a small revolution in music > > > > history... > > > > On 3/4/19 7:12 PM, Richard Brook wrote: > > > > > > > > > Heard via the late great Pat OBrien Paul O’Dette couldn’t bend that > > > > > finger down by itself. Though I think Pat said in my case the fault > > > > > was in my head, not in the stars. > > > > > D ick Brook > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 4, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alain Veylit al...@musickshandmade.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Good one Rainer - Anybody remembers the title of that American > > > > > > series from the 60s-70s where aliens live among us in disguise, and > > > > > > the only sure way to identify them is that they cannot bend their > > > > > > little finger? > > > > > > Worth mentioning also about right-hand technique, Jimmy Hendrix > > > > > > playing with his teeth - frustrated leftie, you think? > > > > > > On 3/4/19 12:19 PM, Rainer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 04.03.2019 17:11, Alain Veylit wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then, there is Django Reinhardt... one big exception to the > > > > > > > > rules of guitar playing. Experimenting with various techniques > > > > > > > > has probably always been a popular habit among musicians, > > > > > > > > whether by choice or force. > > > > > > > > And Aguado used the 4th finger of the right hand. Perhaps he > > > > > > > > was an alien :) > > > > > > > > Rainer > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
