Maciej Konczak plays one, as heard here -
[1]https://youtu.be/H7KrfGtV1jg RT ==== [2]http://turovsky.org Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes. On Mar 12, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Daniel Shoskes <[3]kidneykut...@gmail.com> wrote: It's a d minor tuned "German theorbo" so the double courses in the treble feel comfortable and familiar as any Jauck lute. I've tried the basses single strung (as mentioned by Baron) and with the octaves and do like the double strung octaves better. Played near the bridge I don't feel a loss of volume with the octaves. Again, a very niche instrument played by only a few enthusiasts around the world (Hoppy, Benjamin Narvey and Magnus Andersson I believe). Danny On Mar 12, 2019, at 11:58 AM, Martin Shepherd <[4]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: Hi Danny, I'd forgotten about that awful bent wrist many guitarists have - it makes mine hurt just to think about it! How do you find the double strung theorbo? I made one a couple of years ago (88cm on the petit jeu) and was surprised by the sound and feel. It was more lutelike of course, but the sound was surprisingly metallic, especially when played with the thumb out and near the bridge. Historically, even the biggest instruments were usually double strung - I wonder what a 99cm one would be like? All the best, Martin On 12/03/2019 14:15, Daniel Shoskes wrote: Martin: I see no contradiction between being genuinely interested in what historical lutes sounded like and how they were played and my comments below which agree with Besard that if your hand canââ¬â¢t physically achieve the ideal position, you can make adjustments. The classical guitar comment referred to how I played CG in my youth with the thumb out and the wrist internally rotated, a position that I can no longer sustain on the CG and which I agree is not synonymous with thumb out lute technique. I do agree that as more players experiment with thumb out while also trying to replicate what we know or suspect about distance from the bridge and gut string tension that it may change how we hear and interpret the music. You might be pleased to know however that my theorbo is double strung in gut! Danny On Mar 12, 2019, at 8:44 AM, Martin Shepherd <[5]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: I'm genuinely interested in what historical lutes sounded like and how they were played, so I'm not so interested in a "whatever works for you" approach, however popular it may be, along with single strung "archlutes", microscopic theorboes, and other horrors which are nothing to do with historical evidence. I think if there is a "dominant" lute technique it is "thumb out"(TO), because it certainly existed in the 16th C and became the normal technique from c.1600 on. But when I look at the iconography, like Jurgen I see fingers at right angles to the strings, and even a suggestion that strings were approached from beneath (as happens when I try this position, because my middle finger is long compared to the others). Nails, even if very short, come into the picture too. So I think we have a long way to go to appreciate the sound and technique of TO, and (as with the first attempts at TU in the 1970s) we have a lot of experimentation to do to arrive at something which feels natural and efficient. It's not just a question of reverting to "classical guitar" technique - whatever you conceive that to be - but a more difficult process of exploration and experimentation. Martin On 12/03/2019 11:48, Daniel Shoskes wrote: Jà �rgen: Absolutely hit the nail on the head. Itââ¬â¢s all about the sound and people have different hand anatomy and physiology. Iconography and fingering is an important starting point but if it doesnââ¬â¢t fit your hand (and nail growth) it shouldnââ¬â¢t stop you from playing the music you want. Have seen and heard fantastic 6 course performances thumb under, but also thumb out with pi on runs. Ronn McF has one of the best right hands in the business and plays with great speed and tone color variation playing thumb under on his 10 course. Best baroque lute concert I heard last year saw the right thumb sneaking under the index when they crossed. Brilliant West Coast baroque band led by an archlute playing thumb under. Iââ¬â¢ve also heard awful thumb under 6 course playing and painfully poor baroque lute thumb out playing. Whatââ¬â¢s more important than thumb position? Hitting both courses cleanly with good tone and volume control, strong weak alternation in the appropriate music whether pi or im, playing ââ¬Årest strokeâ⬠� on baroque instruments as default and as a rare special effect on earlier instruments, bringing out dance rhythms and polyphony when present, using ornamentation and improvisation, savoring the sound of low tension gut strings. If you need to play Renaissance music thumb out, have at it. If you have a short thumb and canââ¬â¢t get it out comfortably, focus on sound production and playing musically and all is well. Iââ¬â¢ve been given that advice in lessons and masterclasses by numerous teachers. I have both a short thumb and a wrist injured by decades of doing vascular and microsurgery and the full thumb out of my classical guitar days is painful and prevents my fingers from getting a decent sound. i wonââ¬â¢t let that stop me from enjoying all my in! s! truments, from my 4 course Re! n! ai! ssance guitar to my 13 course German theorbo. Danny On Mar 12, 2019, at 2:50 AM, Jurgen Frenz <[6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Having acquired an 8c lute in late December makes the subject incredible relevant to me. I hope nobody is offended when I put down some personal practical observations without referring to historic evidence. The entire hand position needs to be different, I think. (1) As it is possible to play p-i lines on all courses doing so with m-i ends for me somewhere on the middle F string - the inside of the hand would just mute the high g string because of the pinky that is planted on the sound board with my European average hand. (2) Playing distinctive bass lines on the 7th and 8th course while playing m-i on the upper courses forces (I believe) the hand to turn more like 45 degrees or so towards the strings and not any longer "almost parallel" as is practical for earlier music. The challenge to me is to produce a "gentle" sound and finger nails are a more urgent matter than playing on a 6c lute thumb out. From what people say here I conclude that this is quite a personal matter, individuals have different nail growth and sound ideals. Or would you just lift the pinky? I don't think so because it is the GPS sensor for string geography. On the images in Jean-Marie's links I find it surprising that the hand is actually almost at 90 degrees to the strings, quite like classical guitar players but the hand is placed at the corner of the bridge, miles away from the rosette. Once again, placing the hand there would automatically turn the hand around even further. Best regards Jà �rgen ---------------------------------- ââ¬ÅThere is a voice that doesnââ¬â¢t use words. Listen.â⬠� Jalà �l ad-Dà �n Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html <[8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [9]https://www.avast.com/antivirus <[10]https://www.avast.com/antivirus> -- -- References 1. https://youtu.be/H7KrfGtV1jg 2. http://turovsky.org/ 3. mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com 4. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 5. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 6. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. https://www.avast.com/antivirus 10. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
