Sor's words: Never in my life have I heard a guitarist whose playing was supportable, if he played with the nails. The nails can produce but very few gradations in the quality of the sound: the piano passages can never be singing, nor the fortes sufficiently full. Their performance is, to mine, what the harpsichord was in comparison to the pianoforteâthe piano passages were always jingling, and, in the fortes, the noise of the keys predominated over the sound of the wires. It is necessary that the performance of Mr. Aguado should have so many excellent qualities as it possesses, to excuse his employment of the nails ; and he himself would have condemned the use of them if he had not attained such a degree of agility, nor found himself beyond the time of life in which we are able to contend against the bend of the fingers acquired by a long habitude. Best wishes, Antonio __________________________________________________________________
From: George Torres <torr...@lafayette.edu> To: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@gmail.com> Cc: magnus andersson <maan7...@yahoo.com>; Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; Lute List <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:45 Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee Sor reportedly used a nail on his thumb, for special effect, after meeting Aguado, who did play with nails. > On May 8, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Fernando Sor. > RT > > > On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote: >> Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who >> explicitly played without fingernails? >> >> [1]Skickat frÃÃà ¥n Yahoo Mail fÃÃà ¶r iPhone >> >> Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson >> <[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>: >> >> Hear! hear!. >> >> And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De >> >> Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start................ >> >> Martyn >> >> On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall >> >> <[2][3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: >> >> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket - >> >> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that >> >> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 >> >> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not >> >> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta]. >> >> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at >> >> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform. >> >> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails. >> >> Monica >> >> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson >> >> <[1][3][4]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Dear collective wisdom, >> >> > From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been >> >> around >> >> > since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini, >> >> Corbetta >> >> > (who we know had >> >> > to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still >> pay >> >> his >> >> > fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de VisÃà à ©e >> had >> >> found >> >> > a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing >> >> their >> >> > strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini: >> >> > >> >> > "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and >> >> cleanly; In >> >> > the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto, >> >> like >> >> > pearl[s]" >> >> > /Magnus >> >> > >> >> > On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly >> >> > <[2][4][5]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: >> >> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document >> good >> >> nail >> >> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I >> >> would >> >> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from >> telescope >> >> > lenses >> >> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The >> >> chamois >> >> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much >> >> better >> >> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among >> >> those >> >> > who >> >> > play with nails. >> >> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. >> >> > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran >> >> > <[1][1][3][5][6]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > Hahahaha good point! >> >> > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to >> >> remember >> >> > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of >> >> years to >> >> > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum >> >> > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute >> >> > <[2][2][4][6][7]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>: >> >> > Dear All: >> >> > Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to >> >> build >> >> > lutes and >> >> > craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to >> >> file >> >> > and >> >> > polish >> >> > their nails. >> >> > Jim Stimson >> >> > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> > -------- Original message -------- >> >> > From: John Mardinly <[3][3][5][7][8]john.mardi...@asu.edu> >> >> > Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00) >> >> > To: Roland Hayes >> <[4][4][6][8][9]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org> >> >> > Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7][9][10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> >> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee >> >> > More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of >> >> the >> >> > modern >> >> > files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly >> >> prepared >> >> > nails give >> >> > a terrible result for both sound and playability. My >> >> teacher >> >> > back >> >> > in >> >> > 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia >> >> > prepared >> >> > his >> >> > nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a >> >> saw-cut >> >> > slot in >> >> > it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden >> block. >> >> The >> >> > nail was >> >> > then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, >> >> which >> >> > acted as >> >> > a track to guide the nail. When I began to study >> >> metallurgy and >> >> > the art >> >> > of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their >> >> > microstructure, >> >> > I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the >> >> nails >> >> > that >> >> > were >> >> > quickly adopted by many people playing with nails. >> >> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. >> >> > > On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes >> >> > <[6][6][8][10][11]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not >> as >> >> I >> >> > understand, >> >> > > but >> >> > > >> >> > > I have always thought his lute pieces were merely >> >> > arrangements of >> >> > > guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can >> >> > establish >> >> > the >> >> > use >> >> > > of nails. >> >> > > >> >> > > And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most >> >> likely >> >> > played >> >> > > theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had >> yet >> >> to >> >> > arrive on >> >> > the >> >> > > scene. >> >> > > >> >> > > Get [1]Outlook for Android >> >> > > >> >> > > This message is intended only for the use of the >> >> individual >> >> > or >> >> > entity >> >> > > to which it is addressed, and may contain information >> >> that >> >> > is >> >> > > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure >> >> under >> >> > applicable >> >> > > law. If the reader of this message is not the >> intended >> >> > recipient, >> >> > or >> >> > > the employee or agent responsible for delivering the >> >> message >> >> > to the >> >> > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >> >> > dissemination, >> >> > > distribution, or copying of this communication is >> >> strictly >> >> > prohibited. >> >> > > If you have received this communication in error, >> >> please >> >> > notify us >> >> > > immediately by telephone and return the original >> >> message to >> >> > us at >> >> > > [7][7][9][11][12]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org -- >> >> > > >> >> > > References >> >> > > >> >> > > 1. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> [8][8][10][12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka. >> ms_g >> >> hei3 >> >> > 6&d=Dw >> >> > >> >> > >> >> IBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joG >> >> > eE1 >> >> > >> >> > ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&mÃà à ¯ à ¿ à ½Ãà à ¯ à ¿ à ½Ãà à ¯ à ¿ >> >> à ½1m2M37zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1 >> >> > fvv >> >> > Jqg&s >> >> > =ctn5UU2dPJsBEQxzJcHstOUeERuDkBtXhs4pd0M0t-c&e= >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > To get on or off this list see list information at >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> [9][9][11][13][13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w ww.c >> s.da >> >> rtmo >> >> > uth.ed >> >> > >> >> > >> >> u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n >> >> > 1Gy >> >> > >> >> > >> cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&mÃà à ¯ >> >> à ¿ à ½Ãà à ¯ à ¿ à ½Ãà à ¯ >> >> > à ¿ à ½1 >> >> > m2M37 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvvJqg&s=9RqBccAKKlP3oVcnl4UNupxF1MvNw_ >> >> > jgZ >> >> > 4VyNvSGyDk&e= >> >> > References >> >> > 1. mailto:[10][12][14][14]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de >> >> > 2. mailto:[11][13][15][15]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> > 3. mailto:[12][14][16][16]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> > 4. mailto:[13][15][17][17]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 5. mailto:[14][16][18][18]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> > 6. mailto:[15][17][19][19]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 7. mailto:[16][18][20][20]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 8. >> >> > >> >> >> [17][19][21][21]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ak a.ms >> _ghe >> >> i36& >> >> > d=Dw >> >> > 9. >> >> > >> >> >> [18][20][22]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs. >> dart >> >> mout >> >> > h.ed >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > References >> >> > >> >> > 1. mailto:[21][23][22]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de >> >> > 2. mailto:[22][24][23]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> > 3. mailto:[23][25][24]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> > 4. mailto:[24][26][25]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 5. mailto:[25][27][26]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> > 6. mailto:[26][28][27]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 7. mailto:[27][29][28]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 8. >> >> >> [28][30][29]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms _ghe >> i3 >> >> > 9. >> >> >> [29][31][30]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs. dart >> mo >> >> > 10. mailto:[30][32][31]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de >> >> > 11. mailto:[31][33][32]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> > 12. mailto:[32][34][33]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> > 13. mailto:[33][35][34]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 14. mailto:[34][36][35]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> > 15. mailto:[35][37][36]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 16. mailto:[36][38][37]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> > 17. >> >> >> [37][39][38]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms _ghe >> i36& >> >> d=Dw >> >> > 18. >> >> >> [38][40][39]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs. dart >> mout >> >> h.ed >> >> > >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:[41][40]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 2. mailto:[42][41]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> 3. mailto:[43][42]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de >> >> 4. mailto:[44][43]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 5. mailto:[45][44]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> 6. mailto:[46][45]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 7. mailto:[47][46]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 8. mailto:[48][47]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 9. mailto:[49][48]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 10. >> [50][49]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe i3 >> >> 11. >> [51][50]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart mo >> >> 12. mailto:[52][51]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de >> >> 13. mailto:[53][52]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 14. mailto:[54][53]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> 15. mailto:[55][54]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 16. mailto:[56][55]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 17. mailto:[57][56]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 18. mailto:[58][57]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 19. >> [59][58]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe i36& >> >> 20. >> [60][59]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart mout >> >> 21. mailto:[61][60]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de >> >> 22. mailto:[62][61]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 23. mailto:[63][62]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> 24. mailto:[64][63]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 25. mailto:[65][64]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 26. mailto:[66][65]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 27. mailto:[67][66]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 28. >> [68][67]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe i3 >> >> 29. >> [69][68]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart mo >> >> 30. mailto:[70][69]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de >> >> 31. mailto:[71][70]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 32. mailto:[72][71]john.mardi...@asu.edu >> >> 33. mailto:[73][72]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 34. mailto:[74][73]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> 35. mailto:[75][74]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 36. mailto:[76][75]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org >> >> 37. >> [77][76]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe i36& >> d=Dw >> >> 38. >> [78][77]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart mout >> h.ed >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. 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[154]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36 &d=Dw >> 78. [155]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmou th.ed >> > > -- References 1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 6. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 7. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 9. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 11. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 12. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org 13. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.c 14. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 15. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 16. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 17. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 18. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 19. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 20. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org 21. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms 22. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 23. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 24. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 25. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 26. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 27. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 28. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org 29. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe 30. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart 31. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 32. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 33. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 34. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 35. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 36. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 37. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org 38. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe 39. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart 40. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu 41. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 42. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 43. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 44. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 45. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 46. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 47. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 48. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org 49. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3 50. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo 51. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 52. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 53. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 54. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 55. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 56. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 57. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org 58. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36& 59. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout 60. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 61. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 62. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 63. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 64. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 65. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 66. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org 67. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3 68. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo 69. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 70. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu 71. 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