[LUTE] Re: De Visee

Mon, 27 May 2019 09:43:07 -0700 

John and Antonio,

Sorry for the late response, but with the end of the school year upon us, I 
hadn’t the opportunity to consult my sources that led me to my comment that 
Sor used a nail on his thumb.  I was in error abut that, but not about Sor 
using nails for special effect.  Antonio, thanks for alerting me to that quote. 
 Funny, if you had looked at the text just before the one you quoted in his 
method, you would've see the following.

>From his method (1830):

“Comme le hautbois a un son tout-à-fait nasal, non seulement j’attaque la 
corde le plus près que possible du chevalet, mais je courbe mes doigts, et 
j’emploie le peu d’ongle que j’ai pour les attaquer: c’est le seul cas 
où j’ai cru pouvoir m’en servir sans inconvénient.” (21)

Translation by A. Merrick:

"As the hautboy has quite a nasal sound, I not only touch the strings as near 
as possible to the bridge but I curve my fingers and use the little nail that I 
possess to set them in vibration and this is the only case which I have thought 
myself able to employ the nail without inconvenience." (16-17)

The quote "Never in my life have I heard a guitarist whose playing was, 
supportable if he played with the nails…” refers to exclusive nail playing, 
as Aguado had practiced (that is, until he met Sor, after which the former 
began to use only flesh for the thumb).  So it’s pretty clear from the quote 
that Sor kept his nails very short, so as to employ the fleshy part of the 
fingertip in almost all of his playing.  Nevertheless, based on Sor’s own 
words, we cannot say that he never used the nails of the right hand in playing.

Cheers,
Jorge


> On May 9, 2019, at 12:37 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> 
> My suspicion would be that the nails Sor heard were just not prepared well.
> 
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
> 
>> On May 8, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Antonio Corona <abcor...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>  Sor's words:
>>  Never in my life have I heard a guitarist whose playing was
>>  supportable, if he played with the nails. The nails can produce but
>>  very few gradations in the quality of the sound: the piano passages can
>>  never be singing, nor the fortes sufficiently full. Their performance
>>  is, to mine, what the harpsichord was in comparison to the
>>  pianoforteâthe piano passages were always jingling, and, in the fortes,
>>  the noise of the keys predominated over the sound of the wires. It is
>>  necessary that the performance of Mr. Aguado should have so many
>>  excellent qualities as it possesses, to excuse his employment of the
>>  nails ; and he himself would have condemned the use of them if he had
>>  not attained such a degree of agility, nor found himself beyond the
>>  time of life in which we are able to contend against the bend of the
>>  fingers acquired by a long habitude.
>>  Best wishes,
>>  Antonio
>>    __________________________________________________________________
>> 
>>  From: George Torres <torr...@lafayette.edu>
>>  To: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@gmail.com>
>>  Cc: magnus andersson <maan7...@yahoo.com>; Martyn Hodgson
>>  <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; Lute List <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Monica
>>  Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
>>  Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:45
>>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>>  Sor reportedly used a nail on his thumb, for special effect, after
>>  meeting Aguado, who did play with nails.
>>> On May 8, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Fernando Sor.
>>> RT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote:
>>>>  Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo
>>  player who
>>>>  explicitly played without fingernails?
>>>> 
>>>>  [1]Skickat frÃÆÃ ¥n Yahoo Mail fÃÆÃ ¶r iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>  Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
>>>>  <[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>>>> 
>>>>    Hear! hear!.
>>>> 
>>>>    And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means
>>  that De
>>>> 
>>>>    Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths
>>  start................
>>>> 
>>>>    Martyn
>>>> 
>>>>    On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
>>>> 
>>>>    <[2][3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket
>>  -
>>>> 
>>>>    that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
>>>> 
>>>>    Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was
>>  given 500
>>>> 
>>>>    Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
>>>> 
>>>>    withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
>>>> 
>>>>    Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of
>>  Savoy at
>>>> 
>>>>    the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>>>> 
>>>>    We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>>>> 
>>>>    Monica
>>>> 
>>>>> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
>>>> 
>>>>    <[1][3][4]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>  Dear collective wisdom,
>>>> 
>>>>>  From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has
>>  been
>>>> 
>>>>    around
>>>> 
>>>>>  since  at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like
>>  Piccinini,
>>>> 
>>>>    Corbetta
>>>> 
>>>>>  (who we know had
>>>> 
>>>>>  to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and
>>  still
>>>>  pay
>>>> 
>>>>    his
>>>> 
>>>>>  fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de
>>  VisÃÆ Ã ©e
>>>>  had
>>>> 
>>>>    found
>>>> 
>>>>>  a way for them to get it to work without shredding and
>>  tearing
>>>> 
>>>>    their
>>>> 
>>>>>  strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>  "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly,
>>  and
>>>> 
>>>>    cleanly; In
>>>> 
>>>>>  the manner that all small touches of the string may be
>>  schietto,
>>>> 
>>>>    like
>>>> 
>>>>>  pearl[s]"
>>>> 
>>>>>  /Magnus
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>  On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
>>>> 
>>>>>  <[2][4][5]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>    Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone
>>  document
>>>>  good
>>>> 
>>>>    nail
>>>> 
>>>>>    polishing techniques that may have been used centuries
>>  ago? I
>>>> 
>>>>    would
>>>> 
>>>>>    love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
>>>>  telescope
>>>> 
>>>>>  lenses
>>>> 
>>>>>    and mirrors to razors would not work well on
>>  fingernails. The
>>>> 
>>>>    chamois
>>>> 
>>>>>    stropping technique used by Segovia because there was
>>  not much
>>>> 
>>>>    better
>>>> 
>>>>>    in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today
>>  among
>>>> 
>>>>    those
>>>> 
>>>>>  who
>>>> 
>>>>>    play with nails.
>>>> 
>>>>>    A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>>>> 
>>>>>    On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
>>>> 
>>>>>  <[1][1][3][5][6]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>>>> 
>>>>>    wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>    Hahahaha good point!
>>>> 
>>>>>    To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like
>>  to
>>>> 
>>>>    remember
>>>> 
>>>>>    you that also plants exist which were used for thousands
>>  of
>>>> 
>>>>    years to
>>>> 
>>>>>    polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>>>> 
>>>>>    ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb
>>  jslute
>>>> 
>>>>>    <[2][2][4][6][7]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>>>> 
>>>>>          Dear All:
>>>> 
>>>>>          Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated
>>  enough to
>>>> 
>>>>    build
>>>> 
>>>>>      lutes and
>>>> 
>>>>>          craft overwound strings could have figured out a
>>  way to
>>>> 
>>>>    file
>>>> 
>>>>>  and
>>>> 
>>>>>      polish
>>>> 
>>>>>          their nails.
>>>> 
>>>>>          Jim Stimson
>>>> 
>>>>>          Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>>> 
>>>>>          -------- Original message --------
>>>> 
>>>>>          From: John Mardinly
>>  <[3][3][5][7][8]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>>>> 
>>>>>          Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>>> 
>>>>>          To: Roland Hayes
>>>>  <[4][4][6][8][9]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>>>> 
>>>>>          Cc: Lute List
>>  <[5][5][7][9][10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>>> 
>>>>>          Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>>>> 
>>>>>          More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been
>>  some of
>>>> 
>>>>    the
>>>> 
>>>>>      modern
>>>> 
>>>>>          files and abrasives used to polish the nails.
>>  Badly
>>>> 
>>>>    prepared
>>>> 
>>>>>      nails give
>>>> 
>>>>>          a terrible result for both sound and playability.
>>  My
>>>> 
>>>>    teacher
>>>> 
>>>>>  back
>>>> 
>>>>>      in
>>>> 
>>>>>          1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how
>>  Segovia
>>>> 
>>>>>  prepared
>>>> 
>>>>>      his
>>>> 
>>>>>          nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block
>>  with a
>>>> 
>>>>    saw-cut
>>>> 
>>>>>      slot in
>>>> 
>>>>>          it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the
>>  wooden
>>>>  block.
>>>> 
>>>>    The
>>>> 
>>>>>      nail was
>>>> 
>>>>>          then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the
>>  slot,
>>>> 
>>>>    which
>>>> 
>>>>>      acted as
>>>> 
>>>>>          a track to guide the nail. When I began to study
>>>> 
>>>>    metallurgy and
>>>> 
>>>>>      the art
>>>> 
>>>>>          of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view
>>  their
>>>> 
>>>>>      microstructure,
>>>> 
>>>>>          I experienced a revolution in materials to polish
>>  the
>>>> 
>>>>    nails
>>>> 
>>>>>  that
>>>> 
>>>>>      were
>>>> 
>>>>>          quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
>>>> 
>>>>>          A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
>>>> 
>>>>>      <[6][6][8][10][11]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>>>> 
>>>>>          wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did
>>  not
>>>>  as
>>>> 
>>>>    I
>>>> 
>>>>>          understand,
>>>> 
>>>>>> but
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> I have always thought his lute pieces were
>>  merely
>>>> 
>>>>>      arrangements of
>>>> 
>>>>>> guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we
>>  can
>>>> 
>>>>>  establish
>>>> 
>>>>>      the
>>>> 
>>>>>          use
>>>> 
>>>>>> of nails.
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then
>>  he most
>>>> 
>>>>    likely
>>>> 
>>>>>      played
>>>> 
>>>>>> theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails
>>  had
>>>>  yet
>>>> 
>>>>    to
>>>> 
>>>>>      arrive on
>>>> 
>>>>>          the
>>>> 
>>>>>> scene.
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> Get [1]Outlook for Android
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> This message is intended only for the use of
>>  the
>>>> 
>>>>    individual
>>>> 
>>>>>      or
>>>> 
>>>>>          entity
>>>> 
>>>>>> to which it is addressed, and may contain
>>  information
>>>> 
>>>>    that
>>>> 
>>>>>  is
>>>> 
>>>>>> privileged, confidential and exempt from
>>  disclosure
>>>> 
>>>>    under
>>>> 
>>>>>          applicable
>>>> 
>>>>>> law. If the reader of this message is not the
>>>>  intended
>>>> 
>>>>>      recipient,
>>>> 
>>>>>          or
>>>> 
>>>>>> the employee or agent responsible for
>>  delivering the
>>>> 
>>>>    message
>>>> 
>>>>>      to the
>>>> 
>>>>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>>  that any
>>>> 
>>>>>      dissemination,
>>>> 
>>>>>> distribution, or copying of this communication
>>  is
>>>> 
>>>>    strictly
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>>    please
>>>> 
>>>>>      notify us
>>>> 
>>>>>> immediately by telephone and return the
>>  original
>>>> 
>>>>    message to
>>>> 
>>>>>      us at
>>>> 
>>>>>> [7][7][9][11][12]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org --
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> References
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> 1.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [8][8][10][12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.
>>>>  ms_g
>>>> 
>>>>    hei3
>>>> 
>>>>>      6&d=Dw
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  IBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joG
>>>> 
>>>>>      eE1
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>  ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&mÃÆ Ã ¯ à ¿ à ½ÃÆ Ã ¯ à ¿ à 
>>>>> ½ÃÆ
>>  Ã ¯ Ã ¿
>>>> 
>>>>    Ã ½1m2M37zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1
>>>> 
>>>>>  fvv
>>>> 
>>>>>      Jqg&s
>>>> 
>>>>>          =ctn5UU2dPJsBEQxzJcHstOUeERuDkBtXhs4pd0M0t-c&e=
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information
>>  at
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [9][9][11][13][13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w
>>  ww.c
>>>>  s.da
>>>> 
>>>>    rtmo
>>>> 
>>>>>      uth.ed
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
>>>> 
>>>>>      1Gy
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&mÃÆ Ã ¯
>>>> 
>>>>    à ¿ à ½ÃÆ Ã ¯ à ¿ à ½ÃÆ Ã ¯
>>>> 
>>>>>  Ã ¿ Ã ½1
>>>> 
>>>>>      m2M37
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvvJqg&s=9RqBccAKKlP3oVcnl4UNupxF1MvNw_
>>>> 
>>>>>      jgZ
>>>> 
>>>>>          4VyNvSGyDk&e=
>>>> 
>>>>>  References
>>>> 
>>>>>    1. mailto:[10][12][14][14]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 
>>>>>    2. mailto:[11][13][15][15]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>>    3. mailto:[12][14][16][16]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>>    4. mailto:[13][15][17][17]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>>    5. mailto:[14][16][18][18]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>>    6. mailto:[15][17][19][19]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>>    7. mailto:[16][18][20][20]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>>    8.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [17][19][21][21]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ak
>>  a.ms
>>>>  _ghe
>>>> 
>>>>    i36&
>>>> 
>>>>>  d=Dw
>>>> 
>>>>>    9.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [18][20][22]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.
>>>>  dart
>>>> 
>>>>    mout
>>>> 
>>>>>  h.ed
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>  --
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> References
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>  1. mailto:[21][23][22]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 
>>>>>  2. mailto:[22][24][23]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>>  3. mailto:[23][25][24]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>>  4. mailto:[24][26][25]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>>  5. mailto:[25][27][26]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>>  6. mailto:[26][28][27]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>>  7. mailto:[27][29][28]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>>  8.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [28][30][29]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms
>>  _ghe
>>>>  i3
>>>> 
>>>>>  9.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [29][31][30]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.
>>  dart
>>>>  mo
>>>> 
>>>>> 10. mailto:[30][32][31]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 
>>>>> 11. mailto:[31][33][32]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>> 12. mailto:[32][34][33]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>> 13. mailto:[33][35][34]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>> 14. mailto:[34][36][35]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>> 15. mailto:[35][37][36]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>> 16. mailto:[36][38][37]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>> 17.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [37][39][38]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms
>>  _ghe
>>>>  i36&
>>>> 
>>>>    d=Dw
>>>> 
>>>>> 18.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>  [38][40][39]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.
>>  dart
>>>>  mout
>>>> 
>>>>    h.ed
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    --
>>>> 
>>>>  References
>>>> 
>>>>    1. mailto:[41][40]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    2. mailto:[42][41]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    3. mailto:[43][42]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 
>>>>    4. mailto:[44][43]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    5. mailto:[45][44]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    6. mailto:[46][45]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    7. mailto:[47][46]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    8. mailto:[48][47]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    9. mailto:[49][48]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    10.
>>>> 
>>  [50][49]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>>  i3
>>>> 
>>>>    11.
>>>> 
>>  [51][50]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>>  mo
>>>> 
>>>>    12. mailto:[52][51]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 
>>>>    13. mailto:[53][52]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    14. mailto:[54][53]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    15. mailto:[55][54]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    16. mailto:[56][55]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    17. mailto:[57][56]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    18. mailto:[58][57]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    19.
>>>> 
>>  [59][58]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>>  i36&
>>>> 
>>>>    20.
>>>> 
>>  [60][59]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>>  mout
>>>> 
>>>>    21. mailto:[61][60]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 
>>>>    22. mailto:[62][61]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    23. mailto:[63][62]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    24. mailto:[64][63]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    25. mailto:[65][64]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    26. mailto:[66][65]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    27. mailto:[67][66]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    28.
>>>> 
>>  [68][67]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>>  i3
>>>> 
>>>>    29.
>>>> 
>>  [69][68]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>>  mo
>>>> 
>>>>    30. mailto:[70][69]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 
>>>>    31. mailto:[71][70]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    32. mailto:[72][71]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    33. mailto:[73][72]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    34. mailto:[74][73]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 
>>>>    35. mailto:[75][74]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    36. mailto:[76][75]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 
>>>>    37.
>>>> 
>>  [77][76]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>>  i36&
>>>>  d=Dw
>>>> 
>>>>    38.
>>>> 
>>  [78][77]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>>  mout
>>>>  h.ed
>>>> 
>>>>  --
>>>> 
>>>> References
>>>> 
>>>>  1. 
>>>> [78]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__overview.mail.yahoo.com_-3F.src-3DiOS&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftUCT-q5lQextouPHRZ9AG-407AR_NL8phH2tQAEh-0&s=8xpmQFNz8vDpqucg47s7fTUSnraOUpoGgq6IDaLzuvw&e=
>>>>  2. mailto:[79]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>>  3. mailto:[80]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>>  4. mailto:[81]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>>  5. mailto:[82]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>>  6. mailto:[83]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>>  7. mailto:[84]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>>  8. mailto:[85]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>>  9. mailto:[86]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 10. mailto:[87]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 11. mailto:[88]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 12.
>>  [89]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_g
>>>> 13.
>>  [90]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.da
>>>> 14. mailto:[91]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 15. mailto:[92]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 16. mailto:[93]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 17. mailto:[94]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 18. mailto:[95]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 19. mailto:[96]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 20. mailto:[97]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 21.
>>  [98]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>>>> 22.
>>  [99]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>>>> 23. mailto:[100]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 24. mailto:[101]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 25. mailto:[102]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 26. mailto:[103]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 27. mailto:[104]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 28. mailto:[105]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 29. mailto:[106]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 30.
>>  [107]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>>>> 31.
>>  [108]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>>>> 32. mailto:[109]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 33. mailto:[110]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 34. mailto:[111]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 35. mailto:[112]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 36. mailto:[113]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 37. mailto:[114]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 38. mailto:[115]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 39.
>>  [116]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36
>>  &
>>>> 40.
>>  [117]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmou
>>  t
>>>> 41. mailto:[118]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 42. mailto:[119]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 43. mailto:[120]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 44. mailto:[121]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 45. mailto:[122]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 46. mailto:[123]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 47. mailto:[124]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 48. mailto:[125]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 49. mailto:[126]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 50.
>>  [127]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>>>> 51.
>>  [128]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>>>> 52. mailto:[129]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 53. mailto:[130]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 54. mailto:[131]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 55. mailto:[132]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 56. mailto:[133]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 57. mailto:[134]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 58. mailto:[135]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 59.
>>  [136]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36
>>  &
>>>> 60.
>>  [137]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmou
>>  t
>>>> 61. mailto:[138]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 62. mailto:[139]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 63. mailto:[140]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 64. mailto:[141]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 65. mailto:[142]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 66. mailto:[143]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 67. mailto:[144]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 68.
>>  [145]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>>>> 69.
>>  [146]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>>>> 70. mailto:[147]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>>> 71. mailto:[148]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 72. mailto:[149]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>>> 73. mailto:[150]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 74. mailto:[151]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>> 75. mailto:[152]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 76. mailto:[153]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>>>> 77.
>>  [154]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36
>>  &d=Dw
>>>> 78.
>>  [155]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmou
>>  th.ed
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
>>  2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  3. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  4. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  5. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>  6. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>>  7. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  8. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>  9. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 11. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 12. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 13. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.c
>> 14. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 15. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 16. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 17. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 18. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 19. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 20. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 21. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms
>> 22. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 23. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 24. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 25. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 26. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 27. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 28. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 29. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>> 30. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>> 31. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 32. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 33. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 34. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 35. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 36. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 37. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 38. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>> 39. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>> 40. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 41. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 42. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 43. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 44. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 45. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 46. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 47. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 48. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 49. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>> 50. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>> 51. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 52. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 53. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 54. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 55. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 56. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 57. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 58. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36&;
>> 59. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
>> 60. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 61. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 62. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 63. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 64. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 65. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 66. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 67. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>> 68. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>> 69. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 70. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 71. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 72. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 73. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 74. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 75. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 76. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36&;
>> 77. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
>> 78. 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__overview.mail.yahoo.com_-3F.src-3DiOS&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftUCT-q5lQextouPHRZ9AG-407AR_NL8phH2tQAEh-0&s=8xpmQFNz8vDpqucg47s7fTUSnraOUpoGgq6IDaLzuvw&e=
>> 79. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 80. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 81. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 82. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 83. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 84. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 85. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 86. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 87. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 88. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 89. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_g
>> 90. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.da
>> 91. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 92. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 93. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 94. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 95. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 96. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 97. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 98. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghe
>> 99. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
>> 100. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 101. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 102. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 103. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 104. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 105. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 106. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 107. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>> 108. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>> 109. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 110. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 111. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 112. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 113. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 114. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 115. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 116. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36&;
>> 117. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
>> 118. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 119. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 120. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 121. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 122. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 123. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 124. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 125. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 126. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 127. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>> 128. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>> 129. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 130. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 131. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 132. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 133. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 134. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 135. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 136. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36&;
>> 137. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
>> 138. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 139. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 140. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 141. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 142. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 143. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 144. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 145. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
>> 146. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
>> 147. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
>> 148. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 149. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>> 150. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 151. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 152. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 153. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
>> 154. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36&d=Dw
>> 155. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftUCT-q5lQextouPHRZ9AG-407AR_NL8phH2tQAEh-0&s=Qy3wkqle5mRPo9IYjJoR27KQyUey6Aw8GBYM_8DD6Gc&e=
> 
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