Dear Dmitry I'm afraid I shall have to differ on this point. Such a speculation implies a number of uncertain variables that makes it, in my opinion, untenable. Milan showed himself a competent composer in his other songs: I see no reason to brush this fact aside and look elsewhere.
Best wishes Antonio On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 19:18:06 GMT-6, Dmitry Medvedev <d.p.medve...@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Antonio, I was also thinking of some musical similarities between Verdelot's madrigal "Madonna per voi ardo" and Milan's piece. They are admittedly too vague to suggest that Milan directly used it as a model, but perhaps as a starting point, or there was some other version of the song that they both heard. But I think they are enough to at least speculate that he had some existing Italian setting in mind when composing his own. Dmitry On 1/2/2020 7:48 PM, Antonio Corona wrote: > Dear Dmitry > > You have a point there: as a matter of fact Milan did set to music poetry by > Petrarch and Sannazaro, but to his music. > > Cheers > Antonio > > > > > > > > On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 14:24:08 GMT-6, Dmitry Medvedev ><d.p.medve...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Ah, sorry, should have read more carefully about sonadas :) > > On 1/2/2020 2:51 PM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: >> Fair enough, but should we then assume that, for example, "Madonna per >> voi ardo", both text and music, were written by Luis Milan? >> >> Cheers, >> Dmitry >> >> On 1/2/2020 1:48 PM, Antonio Corona wrote: >> >>> You would do well not to assume that I would state something without >>> basis. >>> >>> About authorship: >>> >>> Libro de musica de vihuela de mano. Intitulado El Maestro [...] >>> Compuesto por don Luys Milan. [...] Y siguiendo mi inclinacion / he >>> me hallado vn libro hecho de muchas obras: que de la vihuela tenia >>> sacadas y escritas [...] si yo solo tuuiese este libro perderia su >>> valor: pues el dexaria e hazer el prouecho que puede: Y si el me >>> tuuiese para que ninguno pudiesse gozar del/p[er]deria yo el mio/pues >>> seria ingrato a quien me dio saber para hazerlo. [...] El qual [i.e. >>> Milán] muy affectdamente ruega a toso los que por su libro passaran >>> que no juzguen sus obras hasta que sean tañidas como cada vno querria >>> que sus obras lo fuessen: y tañidas en su perficion. >>> >>> About the meaning of "componer": >>> >>> Estas seys fantasias que se siguen como arriba hos dixe parescen en >>> su ayre y compostura a las mesmas pauanas que en Ytalia se tañen: y >>> oues en todo remedan a ellas digamos les pauanas. las quatro primeras >>> son inuentadas por mi. las dos que se despues se siguen la sonada >>> dellas se hizo en Ytalia: y la compostura sobre la sonada dellas es mia. >>> >>> About the villancicos: >>> >>> Este que agora se sigue es el otauo quaderno de musica para cantar y >>> tañer [...] En el qual hallareys villancicos y sonadas en castellano >>> y en portugues y en ytaliano. [i.e. not Portuguese or Italian >>> villancicos]. >>> >>> Finalmente haueys hallado musica para cantar y tañer en castellano y >>> en portugues /y en ytaliano. >>> >>> Esta musica que agora se sigue son villancicos en castellano y >>> portugues y sonetos en ytaliano. >>> >>> Aqui empieçan los villancicos en portugues: y este que se sigue segun >>> esta sonado el cantor pude hazer garganta. >>> >>> >>> Furthermore, you would find it enlightening to read El cortesano >>> (1561) by Milan himself, where he displays openly his proclivity for >>> singing and playing his own works and not those of somebody else, as >>> well as the poetic interchanges between the vihuelist and Juan >>> Fernández de Heredia in Las obras de don Ioan Fernandez de Heredia, >>> assi temporales como espirituales (1562). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 06:14:39 GMT-6, Tristan von Neumann >>> <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Says he himself? Or what is the reason for this assumption? >>> >>> >>> :) >>> >>> >>> On 02.01.20 13:03, Antonio Corona wrote: >>>> All the music in El Maestro is by Milán >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 05:54:12 GMT-6, Tristan von Neumann >>>> <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Are you sure? >>>> >>>> Aren't those just Milan's versions of the villancicos? >>>> >>>> >>>> Happy New Year, >>>> >>>> T* >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02.01.20 11:21, Antonio Corona wrote: >>>>> Not quite: they are villancicos in Portuguese by Milan himself. >>>>> >>>>> Happy New Year to all, >>>>> Antonio >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, 1 January 2020, 00:52:50 GMT-6, Frank A. >>>>> Gerbode, M.D. <sa...@gerbode.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Luis Milan El Maestro has 3 Portuguese villancicos, #s 34 to 37 >>>>> [1]here. >>>>> --Sarge >>>>> -- >>>>> Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([2]sa...@gerbode.net) >>>>> 11132 Dell Ave >>>>> Forestville, CA 95436-9491 >>>>> Home phone: 707-820-1759 >>>>> Website: [3]http://www.gerbode.net >>>>> "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got." >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> References >>>>> >>>>> 1. http://gerbode.net/sources/Milan_el_maestro_1535/songs/ >>>>> 2. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net >>>>> 3. http://www.gerbode.net/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>> >>>>> >> >
