Hello Chris and all: Agreed. On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
> With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not > only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The > iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and public > shared community knowledge which extending the value and uses far > beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the mainstream or > universal access argument. If you can simply make an existing thing > accessible you get the universe that goes with it for free. The > VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but being a niche product > it will never have the vast array of cases, docking stations, FM > tuners, chargers etc. Adding a screen reader to a PC is another big > example which connected another audience to a large existing > universe of tools. > > One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot about > robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and form. He > postulated that they would have to be human form to work with the > universe of existing devices and objects that were designed for our > use. To make a robot that could only interface with special robot > tools was doomed to failure in the long run. I think this idea can > have application in accessible technology. Creating helper devices > (tools) that work for all folks, not just blind, deaf, low > cognition, ambulatory or whatever will bring the greatest long term > success. > > Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is curb > cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but are also > great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even know one guy who > uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long reports while he is > driving to work. Why not? Universal design goes both ways and I'm > sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws just to do that. > > CB > > Chris Hofstader wrote: >> >> No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for instance, to >> follow the philosophy of universal design, then we need to make >> sure they know how they can improve for our segment of the universe. >> >> With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and Victor >> Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the LG with >> its built in "accessibility." >> >> As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them against >> each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of things it does >> much better than the AT solutions (will show up in a blog entry >> soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things better. For >> instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon is just about the >> only solution. It also costs a whole lot less and, in my opinion, >> is vastly more precise. >> >> All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set of >> criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy ghetto. >> >> cdh >> On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: >> >>> Hello Krister and all: >>> >>> I would have just written I agree in this message though that >>> would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain >>> anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with that >>> statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am not >>> usually a get it off my chester though ... >>> >>> I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream >>> products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it >>> measures up to a community specific product, that is like >>> comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the >>> purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things >>> accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what seems >>> to be wanted is a blind specific product that already exists for >>> $70. >>> >>> I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for the >>> $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. Now, I and >>> others might have to access the information in a manner which is >>> new or initially uncomfortable though that does not make the >>> product inaccessible or poorly designed. What it does make the >>> product is open to individual evaluation.In short, it is perfectly >>> acceptable for a product to fit one persons needs, not fit a >>> second persons needs, and still be both a good product which can >>> always be improved. >>> >>> Opened myself up for trouble (grin). >>> >>> >>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as >>>> they say >>>> in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my chest >>>> before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare standard gps >>>> solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if Navigon >>>> as a >>>> standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us around >>>> the >>>> place, it's great! What really would've been great would be if >>>> someone >>>> could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here it in >>>> action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access and >>>> Mobile >>>> geo. >>>> /Krister >>>> >>>> 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100 >>>>> william lomas <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> what will the update in december contain for navigon? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> EI don't do podcasts. I will write some blog entries on this >>>>>>> stuff >>>>>>> soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know the >>>>>>> least >>>>>>> about as I only used it for a month or so about a year ago. >>>>>>> Almost >>>>>>> all of the players in the AT biz are using the same Sendero >>>>>>> engine. >>>>>>> So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory are all >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> the same underneath but have different UI that one can pick >>>>>>> from. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, I >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out an >>>>>>> update >>>>>>> expected in December. Navigon is fine if you don't already have >>>>>>> something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite yet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result of >>>>>>> messing >>>>>>> around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been using >>>>>>> Mobile >>>>>>> Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my favorite >>>>>>> but that >>>>>>> is likely because it is the one with which I'm most familiar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> can you do a podcast on navigon so ican hear it? at present >>>>>>>> i am a >>>>>>>> wayfinder user and want to "hear" how it compares >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month and a >>>>>>>>> half, I >>>>>>>>> hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between running >>>>>>>>> tasks. >>>>>>>>> Specifically, I was following directions to our local YWCA >>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>> Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after hanging >>>>>>>>> up, I >>>>>>>>> couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look at some >>>>>>>>> things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I could >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street names >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> such. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on "task >>>>>>>>> switching" and >>>>>>>>> "background task" using VO's search facility as well as the >>>>>>>>> one in >>>>>>>>> Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that this >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given the >>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>> criteria I can think up. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the >>>>>>>>> manual to >>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>> what I might be able to find. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Happy Hacking, >>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Chris G <cgrabowsk...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Take good care and I wish you enough. >>> >>> Love >>> >>> Me >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
