Hello Chris and all: Yes, I am a fan of more carrots and less stick if possible. Sticks are easy to make though I do not know anyone who enjoys being hit by one no matter how worthy or just the cause (grin).
The best way to accomplish what is desired is to reward apple for their innovation with both financial and public support. As a trainer there is nothing cooler than showing a parent a talking ipod, having them purchase one for their child, having the child take it to school and the child being queen or king for the day and possibly longer (grin). That is priceless and customer loyalty will be established forever (grin). And just think, people thought it just played music (grin). On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: > It would also be nice, albeit unmeasurable, that Apple would be > rewarded for implementing universal design. I could then point to it > as an example of what happens when a company does things right. I > have lots of examples of when companies do things wrong (Target, > PriceLine, Ramada and recently CVS). I'd like more carrot and less > stick when I do presentations to developers or at conferences. > > CB > > Chris Hofstader wrote: >> >> Hello Chris the Other, >> >> I agree with your thoughts on universal design. Six or seven years >> ago we found that a lot of rehab counselors were downloading daily >> content from audible.com and listening on a PAC Mate as they went >> from client to client in their cars. this, I suppose, was a bit of >> accidental universal design. >> >> Apple seems to have really figured it out in the iPod Shuffle where >> the product can be used by almost everyone straight out of the box >> and no features are inaccessible to any portion of a large universe >> of potential users. >> >> I hope that Apple's leadership on this front will drag along other >> mainstream players and that we'll start to see the blinkosphere >> expand along with the universe. >> >> cdh >> >> >> On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: >> >>> With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not >>> only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The >>> iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and >>> public shared community knowledge which extending the value and >>> uses far beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the >>> mainstream or universal access argument. If you can simply make an >>> existing thing accessible you get the universe that goes with it >>> for free. The VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but being >>> a niche product it will never have the vast array of cases, >>> docking stations, FM tuners, chargers etc. Adding a screen reader >>> to a PC is another big example which connected another audience to >>> a large existing universe of tools. >>> >>> One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot about >>> robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and form. He >>> postulated that they would have to be human form to work with the >>> universe of existing devices and objects that were designed for >>> our use. To make a robot that could only interface with special >>> robot tools was doomed to failure in the long run. I think this >>> idea can have application in accessible technology. Creating >>> helper devices (tools) that work for all folks, not just blind, >>> deaf, low cognition, ambulatory or whatever will bring the >>> greatest long term success. >>> >>> Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is curb >>> cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but are also >>> great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even know one guy >>> who uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long reports while he is >>> driving to work. Why not? Universal design goes both ways and I'm >>> sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws just to do that. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>> >>>> No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for instance, >>>> to follow the philosophy of universal design, then we need to >>>> make sure they know how they can improve for our segment of the >>>> universe. >>>> >>>> With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and Victor >>>> Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the LG with >>>> its built in "accessibility." >>>> >>>> As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them >>>> against each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of >>>> things it does much better than the AT solutions (will show up in >>>> a blog entry soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things >>>> better. For instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon is >>>> just about the only solution. It also costs a whole lot less >>>> and, in my opinion, is vastly more precise. >>>> >>>> All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set of >>>> criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy ghetto. >>>> >>>> cdh >>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Krister and all: >>>>> >>>>> I would have just written I agree in this message though that >>>>> would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain >>>>> anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with >>>>> that statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am >>>>> not usually a get it off my chester though ... >>>>> >>>>> I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream >>>>> products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it >>>>> measures up to a community specific product, that is like >>>>> comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the >>>>> purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things >>>>> accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what >>>>> seems to be wanted is a blind specific product that already >>>>> exists for $70. >>>>> >>>>> I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for >>>>> the $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. Now, >>>>> I and others might have to access the information in a manner >>>>> which is new or initially uncomfortable though that does not >>>>> make the product inaccessible or poorly designed. What it does >>>>> make the product is open to individual evaluation.In short, it >>>>> is perfectly acceptable for a product to fit one persons needs, >>>>> not fit a second persons needs, and still be both a good product >>>>> which can always be improved. >>>>> >>>>> Opened myself up for trouble (grin). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as >>>>>> they say >>>>>> in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my >>>>>> chest >>>>>> before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare standard >>>>>> gps >>>>>> solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if >>>>>> Navigon as a >>>>>> standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us >>>>>> around the >>>>>> place, it's great! What really would've been great would be if >>>>>> someone >>>>>> could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here it >>>>>> in >>>>>> action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access and >>>>>> Mobile >>>>>> geo. >>>>>> /Krister >>>>>> >>>>>> 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100 >>>>>>> william lomas <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> what will the update in december contain for navigon? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> EI don't do podcasts. I will write some blog entries on >>>>>>>>> this stuff >>>>>>>>> soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know >>>>>>>>> the least >>>>>>>>> about as I only used it for a month or so about a year ago. >>>>>>>>> Almost >>>>>>>>> all of the players in the AT biz are using the same Sendero >>>>>>>>> engine. >>>>>>>>> So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory are >>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> the same underneath but have different UI that one can pick >>>>>>>>> from. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, I >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out >>>>>>>>> an update >>>>>>>>> expected in December. Navigon is fine if you don't already >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite >>>>>>>>> yet. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result of >>>>>>>>> messing >>>>>>>>> around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been using >>>>>>>>> Mobile >>>>>>>>> Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my favorite >>>>>>>>> but that >>>>>>>>> is likely because it is the one with which I'm most familiar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> can you do a podcast on navigon so ican hear it? at >>>>>>>>>> present i am a >>>>>>>>>> wayfinder user and want to "hear" how it compares >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month >>>>>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>>>>> half, I >>>>>>>>>>> hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between running >>>>>>>>>>> tasks. >>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, I was following directions to our local YWCA >>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>> Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after >>>>>>>>>>> hanging >>>>>>>>>>> up, I >>>>>>>>>>> couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look at >>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>> things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I >>>>>>>>>>> could not >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street >>>>>>>>>>> names and >>>>>>>>>>> such. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on "task >>>>>>>>>>> switching" and >>>>>>>>>>> "background task" using VO's search facility as well as >>>>>>>>>>> the one in >>>>>>>>>>> Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that >>>>>>>>>>> this would >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given the >>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>> criteria I can think up. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the >>>>>>>>>>> manual to >>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>> what I might be able to find. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Happy Hacking, >>>>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Chris G <cgrabowsk...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take good care and I wish you enough. >>>>> >>>>> Love >>>>> >>>>> Me >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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