The survey was done independently and has been published even before Macintosh had even marginal accessibility built-in. As I said yesterday, Apple's number is probably unnaturally low because of the "invisible" users out there who aren't attached to any blindness agency or other place where it is easy to count users of a particular product.
Even if we accepted the 3% number as the entire sales figure for Apple, we would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month, while not amazing it is certainly enough money to pay attention to. On the other side of the coin, though, JAWS may, in terms of total users, also be undercounted as they almost always have a cracked version that lots of people use for free. So, counting AT users is a very dark art as one needs to factor in all sorts of variables (Apple's silent users, JAWS crack users, etc) the Holy Grail of market share surveys would be a comprehensive survey of all blinks who use a computer but, as we don't know where they are, we would still fall into statistical ambiguity. All I can gleen from this year's survey is that JAWS and VO have grown and Window-Eyes and HAL have dropped and System Access is still below 1% which is sad as they have a no cost solution that few people must know about. Happy Hacking, cdh On Aug 13, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: > So this is survey based or is Apple somehow able to gather usage > statistics. I'm assuming the former since the latter would have > interesting legal issues about snooping around to identify users > with disabilities. Glad to see a 3% market share. I guess I was > leaning towards monetary kinds of rewards. We can certainly point to > the $6M settlement in Target v. NFB (a big stick) but it would be > nice to point out $X million in revenue due to Apple's universal > designs (a nice carrot). So if we knew how many of the 9.715M macs > sold in 2008 were VO users it would make a positive pressure point. > > CB > > Chris Hofstader wrote: >> >> One "reward" Apple can measure for taking on universal design >> principles will be reflected in the portion of the population of >> Macintosh users who had, not too long ago, been shut out from the >> Apple product line. >> >> In an annual report that I read in detail every February when it >> comes out, Apple/VO had a non-zero percentage of the blind user >> break out (there were some but a virtually immeasurable small >> number) back in the 2007 numbers (remember, this particular survey >> actually measures market share in the year before its publication >> so this number represents a snapshot at some point in 2006). >> >> This year, the same report showed a 2-3% market-share among blind >> users choosing the Apple brand. As 2009 has been such a watershed >> year for Apple accessibility, each newly accessible product will >> likely have a forward pull effect on the others and I will bet that >> Apple sees even greater growth in the coming year. >> >> In screen reading, Apple is really the first to include a >> professional level program (VO) with the OS. A lot of people with >> vision impairment may be using it but, as they don't get their AT >> through traditional channels it is highly likely that the Apple >> number is lower than reality as no one counts these singlets. >> >> An odd number in this year's numbers was that VoiceOver had a >> larger portion than both Seretek System Access and Dolphin HAL >> which, on a worldwide basis ranked in the too small to count >> figures. So, for Apple to move up to even 3% with what may be a >> notably large number of uncounted populations, they may be moving >> up more rapidly than anyone expects. >> >> It is relatively easy to get accurate numbers for JAWS and Window- >> Eyes but all of the others, including VO, are subject to a higher >> rate of error as the people who count such things don't know where >> to find them. >> >> Happy Hacking, >> cdh >> >> >> >> On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: >> >>> It would also be nice, albeit unmeasurable, that Apple would be >>> rewarded for implementing universal design. I could then point to >>> it as an example of what happens when a company does things right. >>> I have lots of examples of when companies do things wrong (Target, >>> PriceLine, Ramada and recently CVS). I'd like more carrot and less >>> stick when I do presentations to developers or at conferences. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Chris the Other, >>>> >>>> I agree with your thoughts on universal design. Six or seven >>>> years ago we found that a lot of rehab counselors were >>>> downloading daily content from audible.com and listening on a PAC >>>> Mate as they went from client to client in their cars. this, I >>>> suppose, was a bit of accidental universal design. >>>> >>>> Apple seems to have really figured it out in the iPod Shuffle >>>> where the product can be used by almost everyone straight out of >>>> the box and no features are inaccessible to any portion of a >>>> large universe of potential users. >>>> >>>> I hope that Apple's leadership on this front will drag along >>>> other mainstream players and that we'll start to see the >>>> blinkosphere expand along with the universe. >>>> >>>> cdh >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>>> >>>>> With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not >>>>> only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The >>>>> iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and >>>>> public shared community knowledge which extending the value and >>>>> uses far beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the >>>>> mainstream or universal access argument. If you can simply make >>>>> an existing thing accessible you get the universe that goes with >>>>> it for free. The VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but >>>>> being a niche product it will never have the vast array of >>>>> cases, docking stations, FM tuners, chargers etc. Adding a >>>>> screen reader to a PC is another big example which connected >>>>> another audience to a large existing universe of tools. >>>>> >>>>> One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot >>>>> about robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and >>>>> form. He postulated that they would have to be human form to >>>>> work with the universe of existing devices and objects that were >>>>> designed for our use. To make a robot that could only interface >>>>> with special robot tools was doomed to failure in the long run. >>>>> I think this idea can have application in accessible technology. >>>>> Creating helper devices (tools) that work for all folks, not >>>>> just blind, deaf, low cognition, ambulatory or whatever will >>>>> bring the greatest long term success. >>>>> >>>>> Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is >>>>> curb cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but >>>>> are also great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even >>>>> know one guy who uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long >>>>> reports while he is driving to work. Why not? Universal design >>>>> goes both ways and I'm sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws >>>>> just to do that. >>>>> >>>>> CB >>>>> >>>>> Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for >>>>>> instance, to follow the philosophy of universal design, then we >>>>>> need to make sure they know how they can improve for our >>>>>> segment of the universe. >>>>>> >>>>>> With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and >>>>>> Victor Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the >>>>>> LG with its built in "accessibility." >>>>>> >>>>>> As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them >>>>>> against each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of >>>>>> things it does much better than the AT solutions (will show up >>>>>> in a blog entry soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things >>>>>> better. For instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon >>>>>> is just about the only solution. It also costs a whole lot >>>>>> less and, in my opinion, is vastly more precise. >>>>>> >>>>>> All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set >>>>>> of criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy >>>>>> ghetto. >>>>>> >>>>>> cdh >>>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Krister and all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would have just written I agree in this message though that >>>>>>> would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain >>>>>>> anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with >>>>>>> that statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am >>>>>>> not usually a get it off my chester though ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream >>>>>>> products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it >>>>>>> measures up to a community specific product, that is like >>>>>>> comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the >>>>>>> purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things >>>>>>> accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what >>>>>>> seems to be wanted is a blind specific product that already >>>>>>> exists for $70. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for >>>>>>> the $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. >>>>>>> Now, I and others might have to access the information in a >>>>>>> manner which is new or initially uncomfortable though that >>>>>>> does not make the product inaccessible or poorly designed. >>>>>>> What it does make the product is open to individual >>>>>>> evaluation.In short, it is perfectly acceptable for a product >>>>>>> to fit one persons needs, not fit a second persons needs, and >>>>>>> still be both a good product which can always be improved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Opened myself up for trouble (grin). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as >>>>>>>> they say >>>>>>>> in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my >>>>>>>> chest >>>>>>>> before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare >>>>>>>> standard gps >>>>>>>> solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if >>>>>>>> Navigon as a >>>>>>>> standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us >>>>>>>> around the >>>>>>>> place, it's great! What really would've been great would be >>>>>>>> if someone >>>>>>>> could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here >>>>>>>> it in >>>>>>>> action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access >>>>>>>> and Mobile >>>>>>>> geo. >>>>>>>> /Krister >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100 >>>>>>>>> william lomas <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> what will the update in december contain for navigon? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> EI don't do podcasts. I will write some blog entries on >>>>>>>>>>> this stuff >>>>>>>>>>> soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know >>>>>>>>>>> the least >>>>>>>>>>> about as I only used it for a month or so about a year >>>>>>>>>>> ago. Almost >>>>>>>>>>> all of the players in the AT biz are using the same >>>>>>>>>>> Sendero engine. >>>>>>>>>>> So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory >>>>>>>>>>> are all >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> the same underneath but have different UI that one can >>>>>>>>>>> pick from. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, >>>>>>>>>>> I would >>>>>>>>>>> suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out >>>>>>>>>>> an update >>>>>>>>>>> expected in December. Navigon is fine if you don't >>>>>>>>>>> already have >>>>>>>>>>> something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite >>>>>>>>>>> yet. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result >>>>>>>>>>> of messing >>>>>>>>>>> around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been >>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile >>>>>>>>>>> Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my >>>>>>>>>>> favorite but that >>>>>>>>>>> is likely because it is the one with which I'm most >>>>>>>>>>> familiar. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> can you do a podcast on navigon so ican hear it? at >>>>>>>>>>>> present i am a >>>>>>>>>>>> wayfinder user and want to "hear" how it compares >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month >>>>>>>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>>>>>>> half, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between >>>>>>>>>>>>> running tasks. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, I was following directions to our local >>>>>>>>>>>>> YWCA using >>>>>>>>>>>>> Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after >>>>>>>>>>>>> hanging >>>>>>>>>>>>> up, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look >>>>>>>>>>>>> at some >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I >>>>>>>>>>>>> could not >>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>> back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street >>>>>>>>>>>>> names and >>>>>>>>>>>>> such. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on "task >>>>>>>>>>>>> switching" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> "background task" using VO's search facility as well as >>>>>>>>>>>>> the one in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>> this would >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given >>>>>>>>>>>>> the search >>>>>>>>>>>>> criteria I can think up. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the >>>>>>>>>>>>> manual to >>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>> what I might be able to find. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Happy Hacking, >>>>>>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Chris G <cgrabowsk...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take good care and I wish you enough. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Love >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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