I remember the early jaws days. I knew that Ted Henter and all the people there really gave their all. Seems that when a company is small, it is easy for it to keep its focus. On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:56 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
> Hi, > > I couldn't agree with you more as regards Apple and its efforts > toward universal access. > > I understand the feeling you must have when the kid went off to > school with a new talking iPod as, when I worked at HJ/FS, i was > well aware that every new copy of JAWS that went out the door > probably meant that someone got a job, is starting in college or > furthering their scholastic life with a good tool. This was pounded > into our heads by Ted Henter to whom every customer was special. > Things became less satisfying in the FS days as, when Ted was in > charge, he would virtually shut down the software engineering > department until we fixed a bug or two for a single customer who had > trouble doing his job. Now it's all about monthly/quarterly revenue > figures than about the end user. It's sad but I neither own the > company nor do I work there anymore. > > > As regards other companies who make somewhat accessible items, the > community should reward them in proportion to the number of features > we can use versus those we cannot. If a product is 25% accessible > for people with vision impairment, then we should give them a 25% > pat on the back while handing them a list of the 75% of the features > that they need to improve. > > Often, especially on iPhone and Windows Mobile, a program will be > accessible, at least in part, because the API gives a lot of > automatic accessibility so some of the software out there will b > usable by default. I think the authors of such software should be > contacted and applauded even if they didn't know they made an > accessible application as it may help convince them to work with the > community in the future to ensure their accessibility continues. > > Some companies or groups within a company are virtually hostile to > our requests for accessibility. I have found that the entire > product line from Intuit works very poorly with any and all screen > readers but no matter how many emails and phone calls later, they > refuse to give the screen reader authors even the tiniest crumb. > Intuit and companies like it may require the stick as all of the > carrots we've supplied were spit back out. > > cdh > > > > On Aug 13, 2009, at 12:07 PM, patrickneazer wrote: > >> Hello Chris and all: >> >> Yes, I am a fan of more carrots and less stick if possible. Sticks >> are easy to make though I do not know anyone who enjoys being hit >> by one no matter how worthy or just the cause (grin). >> >> The best way to accomplish what is desired is to reward apple for >> their innovation with both financial and public support. >> >> As a trainer there is nothing cooler than showing a parent a >> talking ipod, having them purchase one for their child, having the >> child take it to school and the child being queen or king for the >> day and possibly longer (grin). >> >> That is priceless and customer loyalty will be established forever >> (grin). >> >> And just think, people thought it just played music (grin). >> On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: >> >>> It would also be nice, albeit unmeasurable, that Apple would be >>> rewarded for implementing universal design. I could then point to >>> it as an example of what happens when a company does things right. >>> I have lots of examples of when companies do things wrong (Target, >>> PriceLine, Ramada and recently CVS). I'd like more carrot and less >>> stick when I do presentations to developers or at conferences. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Chris the Other, >>>> >>>> I agree with your thoughts on universal design. Six or seven >>>> years ago we found that a lot of rehab counselors were >>>> downloading daily content from audible.com and listening on a PAC >>>> Mate as they went from client to client in their cars. this, I >>>> suppose, was a bit of accidental universal design. >>>> >>>> Apple seems to have really figured it out in the iPod Shuffle >>>> where the product can be used by almost everyone straight out of >>>> the box and no features are inaccessible to any portion of a >>>> large universe of potential users. >>>> >>>> I hope that Apple's leadership on this front will drag along >>>> other mainstream players and that we'll start to see the >>>> blinkosphere expand along with the universe. >>>> >>>> cdh >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>>> >>>>> With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not >>>>> only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The >>>>> iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and >>>>> public shared community knowledge which extending the value and >>>>> uses far beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the >>>>> mainstream or universal access argument. If you can simply make >>>>> an existing thing accessible you get the universe that goes with >>>>> it for free. The VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but >>>>> being a niche product it will never have the vast array of >>>>> cases, docking stations, FM tuners, chargers etc. Adding a >>>>> screen reader to a PC is another big example which connected >>>>> another audience to a large existing universe of tools. >>>>> >>>>> One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot >>>>> about robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and >>>>> form. He postulated that they would have to be human form to >>>>> work with the universe of existing devices and objects that were >>>>> designed for our use. To make a robot that could only interface >>>>> with special robot tools was doomed to failure in the long run. >>>>> I think this idea can have application in accessible technology. >>>>> Creating helper devices (tools) that work for all folks, not >>>>> just blind, deaf, low cognition, ambulatory or whatever will >>>>> bring the greatest long term success. >>>>> >>>>> Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is >>>>> curb cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but >>>>> are also great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even >>>>> know one guy who uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long >>>>> reports while he is driving to work. Why not? Universal design >>>>> goes both ways and I'm sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws >>>>> just to do that. >>>>> >>>>> CB >>>>> >>>>> Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for >>>>>> instance, to follow the philosophy of universal design, then we >>>>>> need to make sure they know how they can improve for our >>>>>> segment of the universe. >>>>>> >>>>>> With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and >>>>>> Victor Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the >>>>>> LG with its built in "accessibility." >>>>>> >>>>>> As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them >>>>>> against each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of >>>>>> things it does much better than the AT solutions (will show up >>>>>> in a blog entry soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things >>>>>> better. For instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon >>>>>> is just about the only solution. It also costs a whole lot >>>>>> less and, in my opinion, is vastly more precise. >>>>>> >>>>>> All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set >>>>>> of criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy >>>>>> ghetto. >>>>>> >>>>>> cdh >>>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Krister and all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would have just written I agree in this message though that >>>>>>> would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain >>>>>>> anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with >>>>>>> that statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am >>>>>>> not usually a get it off my chester though ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream >>>>>>> products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it >>>>>>> measures up to a community specific product, that is like >>>>>>> comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the >>>>>>> purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things >>>>>>> accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what >>>>>>> seems to be wanted is a blind specific product that already >>>>>>> exists for $70. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for >>>>>>> the $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. >>>>>>> Now, I and others might have to access the information in a >>>>>>> manner which is new or initially uncomfortable though that >>>>>>> does not make the product inaccessible or poorly designed. >>>>>>> What it does make the product is open to individual >>>>>>> evaluation.In short, it is perfectly acceptable for a product >>>>>>> to fit one persons needs, not fit a second persons needs, and >>>>>>> still be both a good product which can always be improved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Opened myself up for trouble (grin). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as >>>>>>>> they say >>>>>>>> in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my >>>>>>>> chest >>>>>>>> before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare >>>>>>>> standard gps >>>>>>>> solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if >>>>>>>> Navigon as a >>>>>>>> standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us >>>>>>>> around the >>>>>>>> place, it's great! What really would've been great would be >>>>>>>> if someone >>>>>>>> could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here >>>>>>>> it in >>>>>>>> action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access >>>>>>>> and Mobile >>>>>>>> geo. >>>>>>>> /Krister >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100 >>>>>>>>> william lomas <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> what will the update in december contain for navigon? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> EI don't do podcasts. I will write some blog entries on >>>>>>>>>>> this stuff >>>>>>>>>>> soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know >>>>>>>>>>> the least >>>>>>>>>>> about as I only used it for a month or so about a year >>>>>>>>>>> ago. Almost >>>>>>>>>>> all of the players in the AT biz are using the same >>>>>>>>>>> Sendero engine. >>>>>>>>>>> So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory >>>>>>>>>>> are all >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> the same underneath but have different UI that one can >>>>>>>>>>> pick from. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, >>>>>>>>>>> I would >>>>>>>>>>> suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out >>>>>>>>>>> an update >>>>>>>>>>> expected in December. Navigon is fine if you don't >>>>>>>>>>> already have >>>>>>>>>>> something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite >>>>>>>>>>> yet. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result >>>>>>>>>>> of messing >>>>>>>>>>> around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been >>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile >>>>>>>>>>> Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my >>>>>>>>>>> favorite but that >>>>>>>>>>> is likely because it is the one with which I'm most >>>>>>>>>>> familiar. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> can you do a podcast on navigon so ican hear it? at >>>>>>>>>>>> present i am a >>>>>>>>>>>> wayfinder user and want to "hear" how it compares >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month >>>>>>>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>>>>>>> half, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between >>>>>>>>>>>>> running tasks. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, I was following directions to our local >>>>>>>>>>>>> YWCA using >>>>>>>>>>>>> Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after >>>>>>>>>>>>> hanging >>>>>>>>>>>>> up, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look >>>>>>>>>>>>> at some >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I >>>>>>>>>>>>> could not >>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>> back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street >>>>>>>>>>>>> names and >>>>>>>>>>>>> such. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on "task >>>>>>>>>>>>> switching" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> "background task" using VO's search facility as well as >>>>>>>>>>>>> the one in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>> this would >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given >>>>>>>>>>>>> the search >>>>>>>>>>>>> criteria I can think up. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the >>>>>>>>>>>>> manual to >>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>> what I might be able to find. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Happy Hacking, >>>>>>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Chris G <cgrabowsk...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take good care and I wish you enough. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Love >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Take good care and I wish you enough. >> >> Love >> >> Me >> >> >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
