Yes, but if the pronunciation of names by siri could be given to voiceover it'd be good. Devin Prater d.pra...@me.com
On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:06 PM, Jessica D <jldai...@gmail.com> wrote: > No, voice over and Siri are two completely separate things. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 1, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Devin Prater <d.pra...@me.com> wrote: >> >> Hmm, I wonder if you change the pronounciation with siri if vo will use it >> too. >>> On 7/1/2014 3:46 PM, Jessica D wrote: >>> A pronunciation dictionary would be nice as well. I have a bunch of names >>> in my contact list voice over refuses to pronounce correctly. Had this >>> time, I cannot change that. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 1, 2014, at 3:23 PM, Daniel McGee <danielmcgee...@googlemail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don’t know what to expect from IOS 8 but it would be nice if they could >>>> continue the trend of voices. In the form of downloading voices you >>>> actually want. Like on the Mac. >>>> By example, say for those in the US, by default you get Samantha but you >>>> actually preferred Tom for whatever reason. Or for UK folks, you get >>>> Daniel but you would rather use Serena. So at the end of the day, you get >>>> a choice. Of course, I don’t know if this will happen in IOS 8 but for me >>>> I know it would be a welcome addition. >>>> >>>> Just my thoughts, for whatever its worth. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 1 Jul 2014, at 19:59, Christopher Hallsworth >>>>> <christopher...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> iOS 5 was sure a big update. Let me stress that it's far and few in >>>>> between we get big updates. The last time was iOS 5 back in 2011. Then do >>>>> you all remember iOS 3 back in 2009? >>>>> >>>>> Christopher Hallsworth >>>>> Student at the Hadley School for the Blind >>>>> www.hadley.edu >>>>> >>>>>> On 01/07/2014 19:36, Devin Prater wrote: >>>>>> I think voiceover will be improved, as it always is. Every big release, >>>>>> and even some small releases, contain changes. I still remember my first >>>>>> big update, to iOS5. I loved the premium voices! Then in iOS6 we were >>>>>> able to underline and bold text in any app that supported it, not just >>>>>> in pages. And we all know all the awesome things in ios7, especially for >>>>>> multilingual people... So just wait, I'm sure we'll be delightfully >>>>>> surprised. >>>>>>> On 7/1/2014 9:53 AM, Alex Hall wrote: >>>>>>> Apple has opened up third-party keyboards, so Fleksy can become your >>>>>>> system-wide input method if you wish. They also added braille input >>>>>>> directly to VoiceOver, letting you use braille on the screen anywhere >>>>>>> you can type. By the way, that last one was on a WWDC Keynote slide, >>>>>>> so it's public knowledge. Those, plus the Alex voice, plus all the >>>>>>> features still protected under NDA, make iOS8 a pretty exciting >>>>>>> release in my book. We have no idea just what to expect to see, so at >>>>>>> least wait until iOS8 is out in the wild before saying that Apple has >>>>>>> done nothing. >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2014, at 9:25 AM, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com >>>>>>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) Just because Apple has not implemented the features you wish to >>>>>>>> see does not mean, in any way, that Apple has not added new features >>>>>>>> to VoiceOver. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) Unless you are a beta tester, you do not know what Apple has or >>>>>>>> has not added. And, beta testers are not supposed to provide such >>>>>>>> information. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3) I listened to two podcasts which discussed some of the new >>>>>>>> accessibility features. As I respect the list position, even though I >>>>>>>> am not a beta tester, I am reframing from making any comments besides >>>>>>>> the one I made about the Alex voice. Also, I will not state which >>>>>>>> podcasts I listened to. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1 Jul 2014, at 23:37, mário navarro <mario....@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:mario....@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ok. >>>>>>>>> seems to me, that users of vo do not have new features in voice over >>>>>>>>> on IOS8. >>>>>>>>> because if these are the new releases for IOS8 accessibility, >>>>>>>>> nothing was done especially for vo. >>>>>>>>> jonathan moasen and some others blind users have made a list of the >>>>>>>>> new features they would like to see the voice over on IOS8, but if >>>>>>>>> these are the new accessibility to IOS8, we can consider that >>>>>>>>> nothing of the desires we all have been met. >>>>>>>>> and there was so much to do and improve the voice over on IOS8. >>>>>>>>> I can not believe that apple has only this to offer us ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will prepare myself for another big disappointment ... >>>>>>>>> cheers . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Em 01-07-2014 07:38, Christopher Hallsworth escreveu: >>>>>>>>>> If it's like the mac Alex will be a U.S. English voice only. Other >>>>>>>>>> languages should still use the Vocalizer Expressive voices as with >>>>>>>>>> the case on iOS 7. As for speak screen I speculate this would be >>>>>>>>>> useless for VO users; more for those with low vision such as Zoom >>>>>>>>>> users or those with a learning disability such as dyslexia. Just a >>>>>>>>>> disclaimer: I am a beta tester but can still only speculate. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Christopher Hallsworth >>>>>>>>>> Student at the Hadley School for the Blind >>>>>>>>>> www.hadley.edu <http://www.hadley.edu> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 01/07/2014 04:05, mário navarro wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> hi. >>>>>>>>>>> alex on IOS8 will only support English / USA, or will speak all the >>>>>>>>>>> languages that are available today in the voices of IOS7 vocalizer >>>>>>>>>>> expressive voices? >>>>>>>>>>> yes, because if Alex comes to IOS8, must be present for all >>>>>>>>>>> languages >>>>>>>>>>> and not only for English USA. >>>>>>>>>>> on the mac, alex only supports English / USA. >>>>>>>>>>> who assures us that alex on IOS8 will not be the same as the mac? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> now speak about speak screen. >>>>>>>>>>> Can anyone explain in more detail what this tool is capable to do >>>>>>>>>>> specifically on the screen? >>>>>>>>>>> because it seems to me that for this purpose we have the selector >>>>>>>>>>> elements. >>>>>>>>>>> with the selector elements can also view the screen and all the >>>>>>>>>>> elements >>>>>>>>>>> that can be found in the screen ... >>>>>>>>>>> what makes this tool more? >>>>>>>>>>> is this not more of the same? >>>>>>>>>>> I do not understand what the speak screen will give us more than the >>>>>>>>>>> selector elements. >>>>>>>>>>> We can also read the entire screen with two fingers up gesture, that >>>>>>>>>>> informs us of what is on the screen. >>>>>>>>>>> anybody explain to me what the speak screen does most specifically? >>>>>>>>>>> thanks. >>>>>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>>>>> Em 28-06-2014 15:23, Robert C escreveu: >>>>>>>>>>>> Yosemite is no harder than Apple. It could be worse, much worse. >>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>> now we wait out the summer. That for some methinks will be much >>>>>>>>>>>> harder >>>>>>>>>>>> than learning to spell Y o s e m i t e. ;) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Quote of the nanosecond . . . >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert & Annie Yanni ke7nwn >>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail- >>>>>>>>>>>> gone.to.da...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/28/2014 5:05 AM, Devin Prater wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I totally agree with the article. Even little things like the >>>>>>>>>>>>> reader >>>>>>>>>>>>> mode in Safari for mac and iOS, make things so simple and lovely. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> can't wait to see what's new in Yosimidy though. On a side note, >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> they have to make OS names so hard to spell nowadays? What ever >>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to simplicity there? LOL. >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2014, at 2:15 AM, Nicholas Parsons >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mr.nicholas.pars...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thought the below article might be of interest to some on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.macstories.net/stories/an-overview-of-ios-8s-new-accessibility-features/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> An Overview of iOS 8's New Accessibility Features >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since this year's WWDC keynote ended, the focus of any analysis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> iOS 8 has been its features -- things like Continuity, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Extensions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and iCloud Drive. This is, of course, expected: iOS is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating >>>>>>>>>>>>>> system that drives Apple's most important (and most profitable) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> products, so it's natural that the limelight be shone on the new >>>>>>>>>>>>>> features for the mass market. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I've written, however, the Accessibility features that Apple >>>>>>>>>>>>>> includes in iOS are nonetheless just as important and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> innovative as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the A-list features that Craig Federighi demoed on stage at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moscone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, Apple is to be lauded for their year-over-year >>>>>>>>>>>>>> commitment to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> improving iOS's Accessibility feature set, and they continue that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trend with iOS 8. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here, I run down what's new in Accessibility in iOS 8, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly how each feature works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex. Apple is bringing Alex, its natural-sounding voice on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to iOS. Alex will work with all of iOS's spoken audio >>>>>>>>>>>>>> technologies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Siri excepted), including VoiceOver, Speak Selection, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> new Accessibility feature to iOS 8, Speak Screen (see below). In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> essence, Alex is a replacement for the robotic-sounding voice >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> controls VoiceOver, et al, in iOS today. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Speak Screen. With Speak Screen, a simple gesture will prompt the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> aforementioned Alex to read anything on screen, including queries >>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked of Siri. This feature will be a godsend to visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users who may have issues reading what is on their iPhone and/or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPad. It should be noted that Speak Screen is fundamentally >>>>>>>>>>>>>> different from Speak Selection, which only reads aloud selected >>>>>>>>>>>>>> text. By contrast, Speak Screen will read aloud everything on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen -- text, button labels, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zoom. Apple has made some welcome tweaks to its Zoom >>>>>>>>>>>>>> functionality >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in iOS 8. The hallmark feature is users now have the ability to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify which part of the screen is zoomed in, as well as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> adjust the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> level of the zoom. In particular, it's now possible to have the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> virtual keyboard on screen at normal size underneath a zoomed-in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> window. What this does is makes it easy to both type and see what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're typing without having to battle the entirety of the user >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface being zoomed in. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayscale. iOS in and of itself doesn't have "themes" like so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> third-party apps support -- and even like OS X Yosemite's new >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dark >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mode". iOS does, however, support a pseudo-theme by way of Invert >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colors (white-on-black). In iOS 8, Apple is adding a second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pseudo-theme to the system with Grayscale. With this option >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on, the entirety of iOS's UI is turned, as the name would imply, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gray. The addition of a Grayscale is notable because it gives >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users who have issues with colorized display -- or who simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> view >>>>>>>>>>>>>> darker displays better -- another way to alter the contrast of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> device(s). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guided Access. The big addition to Guided Access is that Apple is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> leveraging its own new-to-iOS-8 Touch ID developer API to enable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users to be able to exit Guided Access using their scanned >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fingerprint. This is a noteworthy feature because it effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantees that students (or test-takers or museum visitors) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave Guided Access to access the Home screen or other parts of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> iOS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As well, Apple has added a time limit feature to Guided Access, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thereby allowing teachers, parents, and the like to specify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> length of time Guided Access is to be used. Especially in special >>>>>>>>>>>>>> education classrooms, features such as Touch ID to exit and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> timer can be extremely powerful in ensuring an uninterrupted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learning experience, keeping students on task yet still set the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> expectation that a transition (i.e., "You can play games now", >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instance) will take place in X minutes. In terms of behavior >>>>>>>>>>>>>> modification, Guided Access's new features are potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>> game-changing, indispensable tools for educators. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enhanced Braille Keyboard. iOS 8 adds support for 6-dot Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>> input system-wide. This feature involves a dedicated Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard that will translate 6-dot chords into text. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Made for iPhone" Hearing Aids. Apple in iOS 8 has improved its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Made >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for iPhone Hearing Aids software so that now users who use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> aids and have multiple devices now can easily switch between >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moreover, if a hearing aid is paired with more than one device, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users will now be able to pick which device they'd like to use. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Third Party Keyboard API. This topic (as well as QuickType) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthy of its own standalone article, but the accessibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ramifications of iOS 8's third party keyboard API are potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>> huge for those with special needs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A third-party keyboard on iOS 8. (Source: Apple.com) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anecdotally speaking, I hear from several low vision iOS-using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends who lament the default system keyboard, which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> essentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same keyboard that shipped with the original iPhone in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, my friends say, is that the key caps are too small and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> glyphs too hard to read. With the new API, though, third party >>>>>>>>>>>>>> developers such as the team at Fleksy can create entirely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> customized >>>>>>>>>>>>>> keyboards that users can use instead of the stock one. This means >>>>>>>>>>>>>> developers can control key spacing and size, color, and so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forth in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an effort to create keyboards that accommodate for a wide array >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual -- and motor -- needs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, at WWDC I had a chance to speak with Fleksy co-founder >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> COO, Ioannis Verdelis, about the keyboard API and his company's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> product. While I won't divulge anything that was said at our >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting, suffice it to say that Ioannis and his team were >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stoked at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the news of the new API, and are really excited for what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the works for iOS 8. They really believe the new Fleksy will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefit a lot of people with special needs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Miscellany. iOS 8 brings with it a few housekeeping changes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Settings.app, where the Accessibility options are located. For >>>>>>>>>>>>>> example, the Subtitles & Captioning option -- which previously >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> found under Hearing -- has been moved to a new Media section, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>> next to a new Video Descriptions toggle. Furthermore, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Physical & >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Motor pane -- home to such features as Switch Control and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AssistiveTouch -- has been rechristened Interaction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As stated above, Apple's steadfast commitment to improving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accessibility year after year deserves the utmost praise, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no different. As someone who relies on some of iOS's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accessibility technologies in order to use my devices, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breadth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and depth of these features never cease to amaze me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without any tinge of hyperbole, I often marvel at how truly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accessibility reflects Apple's ethos of designing products for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone, regardless of cognitive or physical impairment. (A >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sentiment I have expressed numerous times elsewhere.) Again, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are signs of real innovation, although they (unfortunately) go >>>>>>>>>>>>>> largely unheralded. It's my strong opinion that Apple is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> leading the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> industry in this regard, and iOS 8 takes another step forward in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> extending their lead. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Have a great day, >>>>>>> Alex Hall >>>>>>> mehg...@icloud.com <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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