Hi. the bug with the reader is happening to me in Yosemite
Maria > On 2 Oct 2015, at 8:01 am, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > I wanted to hit a few points I've seen raised in this thread. > > First, I want to address George's comment suggesting that I would do a > podcast/blog post like this on a beta. I didn't, and I wouldn't, plain and > simple. I was running the GM, which is the final version in all but name. > It's standard practice to use the GM for demos, reviews, bug testing for > non-beta users, and so on. I'd like to know how George knows which version of > OS X is on my machine, when I never said anything about running a beta? In > one section, VoiceOver announces "Xcode-beta", because I'm also running the > Xcode 7.1 beta, but that has nothing to do with my OS X version. > > Second, I know that not all bugs will be considered as serious or trivial by > everyone. My thinking in classification is something like: > > * serious: if it happens, it'll cause a lot of confusion or time lost, and/or > slightly less serious problems that happen constantly. The inability to read > PDFs, or VoiceOver randomly cutting itself off while you try to read, are > serious. > * Moderate: you can deal with it, but it'll get annoying, and it may be worth > waiting for this to be fixed. It won't make you lose a lot of time, or be > unable to access parts of your machine--you can work around it with minor > hassle, in other words. VO not automatically reading email when you press > enter is moderate, as there are ways around it. yet, for those who read their > mail this way, it will be frustrating and inconvenient to put up with. > * Minor: it's a bug, but it isn't too important. It can easily be worked > around, and there's no big rush to fix it, but it'd be nice if it were > squashed. Plain arrow keys not identifying all page elements is minor, since > there are other ways of navigating webpages and, often, something being a > list or heading is less important than what that thing actually says. > > Third, we'll all never agree on severity. I consider some bugs to be serious > that you never deal with, thus you consider them minor, while bugs I don't > think matter much might impact you far more severely than they do me. When I > rate bugs, I try to do so from the perspective of someone who will experience > the problem a lot. For instance, if you never Airdrop, you would consider the > inability to vo-space on an Airdrop target to be minor, but if you use the > feature a lot, it becomes moderate. In 10.10, then, I classed it as moderate. > > Finally, on the point about bugs scaring people into not upgrading. I can > only report the bugs I experience. If I can confirm them with others, so much > the better, but if I can't, and if I can still reliably reproduce them, they > are bugs. Not everyone will have the exact same set of bugs, no matter what, > which makes this whole process quite difficult. My thinking is that, if I can > always reproduce a bug, someone else could easily be impacted by it, too. > Nowhere in my post do I say that every problem is guaranteed to be > encountered by every user, because that's simply not the case. I realize that > not all of us are having the same problems, but I also have to cover as many > users as I can, and that includes the fringe problems only a few people have. > It seems like a system that says how many others have encountered the same > bug would be helpful, but those numbers can never be relied on for very much > because the sample size is just too small. What if someone sees that bug X > has only one person reporting it, so they install anyway and the bug bites > them? What if a lot of people have a bug, but don't post about it in the same > place someone is looking for how many people are affected? This stuff is just > too unpredictable, particularly when we get into edge cases or > configuration-specific issues. > > Thanks for your understanding. I know it can be frustrating to experience > bugs no one else is, or, conversely, to have few problems and not understand > why someone else is making a big deal out of what you see as nothing. As I > said, I have to cast as wide a net as I can, because I never know what bug > might be a show-stopper for someone, nor do I know which bugs will be > experienced by which users or machine setups. I hope this has clarified a few > things. >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:32, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Mary, >> >> I also use classic View, but I almost always prefer accomplishing an action >> with a single key-press, rather than a command that requires multiple keys, >> so I prefer the Enter method. It used to work great, up until Yosemite. >> Cheers, >> Donna >>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:09 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Donna, and thanks for your reply. I am a big fan of the preview pane, >>> the classic view, and using vo Jay to jump between the message list and the >>> text. So the one where you hit enter to open the message and read is not >>> something that would be a huge deal for me. I have done it on occasion, >>> using Yosemite, and don't recall having the bug. But again, I don't use >>> that method very often. >>> Mary >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Mary, >>>> >>>> The one that bugs me the most on a day-to-day basis is the one pertaining >>>> to mail messages. It's very rare that I open a message and just get to >>>> read it. I very often have to open and close it several times. >>>> >>>> there were others I noticed, I think pertaining to the Safari busy. and >>>> having to show and hide the reader a couple of times. But the mail one is >>>> the bug that really drives me crazy. >>>> Take care, >>>> Donna >>>> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:35 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Donna, >>>>> I would be curious which of Alex's bugs you experienced in Yosemite. Some >>>>> of the ones I recall reading on his list I am certainly not experiencing, >>>>> and those are some of the more serious ones. Audio ducking doesn't much >>>>> concern me. But the web stuff, getting stuck on webpages, the problems >>>>> with the neuance etc., those do concern me a lot. >>>>> Mary >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 4:45 AM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I finally had a minute to read Alex's bugs list. I thought it worth >>>>>> mentioning that many of those bugs are bugs I'm currently experiencing >>>>>> in Yosemite. so, while I confess I was hoping they would be fixed in el >>>>>> Capitán, these are not new bugs, just old ones that didn't get fixed. >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Donna >>>>>>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Just a note to say that El Capitan has been released. I compiled a bug >>>>>>> list for AppleVis which I strongly recommend everyone looks at, as >>>>>>> there are some pretty major problems on there. I also wrote a blog, and >>>>>>> did a podcast, covering the new features in VoiceOver. Links: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bug List: >>>>>>> http://www.applevis.com/blog/mac-os-x-news/accessibility-bugs-os-x-1011-el-capitan-serious-minor >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New Features Blog: >>>>>>> http://www.applevis.com/blog/assistive-technology-mac-os-x-news/whats-new-os-x-1011-el-capitan-voiceover-users >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New Features Podcast: >>>>>>> http://www.applevis.com/podcast/episodes/exploring-some-new-accessibility-features-os-x-1011-el-capitan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I realized, in reading this email back, that it might come off as a >>>>>>> little arrogant. I don't mean it that way, I just wanted to give people >>>>>>> a single place to get some coverage about the new OS, and those are the >>>>>>> only accessibility-centric sources I know of for now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Have a great day, >>>>>>> Alex Hall >>>>>>> mehg...@icloud.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > Have a great day, > Alex Hall > mehg...@icloud.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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