Mark, I’m fuming reading this. Microsoft removed such an option and it really worked? Do you know how many blind technologists that limitation makes their jobs difficult? I suspect you do that’s probably one of the reasons you found that upsetting like I do.
I also did not know this feature existed. Thank you for pointing it out. I have yet another reason to not like Microsoft. I too think that security response is just laughable. Since when has Microsoft given a you know what about security? Sounds like a bogus response to me. Something to shut you up because who wants to mess with security. Sometimes i wish Redmond would just fall in to the sea and do us all a favor. Ah well, BTW +1 on the rest of your comments, very well said. > On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:38 PM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote: > > Hello Arnold, > > Like so many others, I have been following this thread. Why? Because, you > remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac journey. This is > to say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I found that learning how > to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely frustrating, at first--especially > given my then expertise with Jaws for Windows. > > There are many reasons why people explore new paths. For some, they merely > wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to themselves that > they can do it. Still others explore new paths out of frustration with the > status quo. My point is that, why, one does something can, in many instances > directly affect the outcome of the exploration, itself. > > In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac because I was > completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering that they deliberately > removed the self-voicing installation feature that shipped with the first > beta release of Windows 7. I had a copy of that particular beta which, via > Narrator, offered a flawlessly comprehensive installation experience for a > totally blind user. It never crossed my mind that they would pull that > feature in subsequent beta releases which, as it turned out, they did. > > I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking heads, > up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the feature as a > result of security concerns. Even as I write this, reliving the experience > in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil. > > But I digress. > > My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local Mac store > and purchased my first MacBook Pro. As you can imagine, my primary > motivation for learning the Mac was because I was sick and tired of Microsoft > restricting installation access to its blind and low vision users--especially > given that they had proven that it could be done and that it could be done > well. > > Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of many, the > Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations. > > Windows is a fine operating system and Jaws, Window Eyes, Zoomtext, etc are > all marvelous accessibility tools. > > Generally speaking, I think it's best to learn how to use both Windows and > Mac OS. Financial limitations notwithstanding, there is no need to choose > one over the other. > > I want to applaud your effort in exploring the Macintosh. Do not be > disappointed in yourself; you will learn what you need to know when you need > to know it. That's just the way the universe works, in my opinion. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Arnold Schmidt > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 10:06 AM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back > > I have been thinking about this for several days. As one coming from > Windows, having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000, > learning to use the mac is like learning a whole new language. I know what I > want to do, but how to do it is almost totally different. Hey, control c > copies something and control v pastes it, they have that in common. But I > have come up with the best reason yet for me to get some used equipment and > learn to do it. Even if I come to the conclusion that there really isn't a > whole lot I can do, in all caps, BETTER on the mac than in windows, I learned > to do it, and will be able to speak? mac as well as windows. That is a > pretty good reason to do it. I admit, I probably wouldn't bother if I didn't > have my iPhone, which apparently works a little better in Mac iTunes, than in > windows iTunes. We'll see, eventually. Now, if I just didn't have to work 40 > hours a week, becoming proficient in mac would happen sooner. > This was one of my vacation weeks. > > Arnold Schmidt > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kimber Gardner" <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com> > To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:21 AM > Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back > > > I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself > in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir. > Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found > myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT > professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows > environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting. > > I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many > comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root > of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my > attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and > answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I > needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the > Mac universe. > > This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on > a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable > with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of > Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same. > > Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time. > I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several > years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and > again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face > of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I > haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and > possibly final) step. > > Kimber > > On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote: >> Hi arnld, >> >> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp? >> >> That would give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple >> os. >> >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson >> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back >> >> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free >> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough >> struggles. >> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my >> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. >> I >> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't >> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for >> Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use >> interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish. >> Joseph Hudson >> Email >> jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com> >> I device support >> Telephone >> 2543007667 >> Skype >> joseph.hudson89 facebook >> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 >> Twitter >> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 >> >> FaceTime/iMessage >> jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com> >> >> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt >> <arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote: >> >> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two >> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini. However, I ended up taking it back after >> all >> yesterday, which was my last day to return it. >> >> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't >> getting it as much as I think I should have been. Every time I would turn >> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that >> I >> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more >> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in >> Windows, or on my iPhone. And in the end, what was going to be the real >> benefit to me? ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install >> the OS myself. >> >> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending >> to >> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit >> trip >> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel. So, I >> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet. I >> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, >> no matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it >> wanted answered. No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac >> mini. I could tell the location for the answer field, I could find what >> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything. I >> typed in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was >> the wrong answer for the question it was asking. I am sure the inability >> to >> get it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's . So, I >> closed Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try >> differing >> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say. I >> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, >> and it just shut off. Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again. I >> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger >> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone, turned the track pad >> commander >> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing. And this >> was my last day. >> >> I wish I had had 30 days. If I had had, I still don't think it would have >> gone back. But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite >> got >> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars >> invested >> in the thing. Even though it would have put me lower in my checking >> account >> than I wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought >> from >> Costco, and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back. I >> bought >> the Lenovo first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again. >> Sometime before Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will >> be >> another good deal come through Costco. >> >> I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did. But it ended up being >> so >> much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, >> with >> not all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know >> what I was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get >> easier by yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I >> have. >> >> Arnold Schmidt >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >> or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to >> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >> or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to >> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >> or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > Kimberly > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > Visionaries list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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