I also want to thank Nick for his lengthy response, you said almost everything I would have said. I think the confusion lies with the ITunes lawsuit. Apple did have a few years without accessibility I believe. Outspoken was discontinued and voice over was brought in and I believe this was due to a state in the US wanting macs for all of its schools during the early 2000s. However, there was no solution for visually impaired users and their was a federal legal issue with the disability discrimination act. Apple said that although they didn't have anything at that present time, they assured the government that something was coming. And indeed they did.
Anyone who thinks Apple will just stop progressing with voice over really needs their head testing. If it was a pure ploy to quiet the legislation from suing the company for breaching the DDA, [or whatever it is called in the US], then they clearly have not followed anything Apple has done since Tiger. Not only has it kept developing voice over for the mac, but it has introduced a fully functional built in screen reader on all of its touch devices when it has been technically possible. The IPod nanos, the IPhone, the touch, shuffle and now the IPad all have voice over. The fact they not only updated their operating system last august for mac and implemented "new" features with the rotor and such, they continually are developing the IPhone OS too. Why would a company plough not only financial revenue but technical expertise to just "forget" it later on. It doesn't make sense. Every day I hear another person switching to the mac and I honestly feel relief for that person. the days of turning my computer on and it just working makes life easier. As I said in another post on this list, while writing my CV, someone who was helping me from an agency pointed out that I should be "adequate" in MS office. How? When MS isn't adequate for me as a user? I get a lot of businesses supposedly use MS but gradually the market will shift and with more third party developers seeing the potential of the mac platform, it will be definitely a two horse race. I think its tragic we live in a world where visually impaired people are expected to use windows, and expected to use it solely. Granted, some of you need windows for your jobs and your school stuff, but at this moment I am not forced to retreat to an operating system that crashed halfway through writing essays or researching. Here in the UK, the university system is slowly seeing the advantage for students, if they choose to to use a mac. And really, in the vast technology era we live in, it should be about what makes us as individuals more productive. And Apple's continual production of voice over and giving us more features, fixing bugs when we request it, shows how dedicated they are to all of their users, not just the mainstream market. And I just did a very long post lol On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:47, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > Hi, > > *grins* Sure do. I've got a coffee thermos next to me in my classroom. I'm > supposed to be diligently taking notes, but really, I'm writing blog posts, > tweeting, on seven messaging accounts, and browsing the web while taking > notes. > > That said, James has a point here. NFB did retract their statement, although > their statement still was really bias. It said they wanted to open it up for > dialog, yet they continue to trash Apple in the same post. > > It just saddens me why this has to happen. I love what Apple has done, and I > know they'll keep it up. I've never sent so many text messages from my > iPhone, never enjoyed a computer this much as a Mac, and had this much fun. > That's because I don't have to worry about any third-party installed screen > reading access software crashing, not starting up, giving me script errors, > and so-on. > > I've really found the accessibility team, regardless of my issue, extremely > responsive. The longest time I have waited for a reply to either a > suggestion, comment or issue is a full day. Not longer than that. They've > replied to all my e-mails except one, and I have sent quite a few of them. > But despite that, the feature I asked for was implemented. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Cody wrote: > >> Is laughing >> >> We got early morning coffee drinkers I see, this list is really jumpin >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" <rmlambert1...@gmail.com> >> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 AM >> Subject: Re: What do you think? >> >> >>> I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, "James & Nash" <james.austin1...@googlemail.com >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite >>>> the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have >>>> commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. >>>> TC >>>> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny >>>> On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus <giantdolp...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I >>>>>> was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the >>>>>> sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the >>>>>> same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, >>>>>> uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from the iPad I wish I had >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson <a...@anarchie.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Nic, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major >>>>>>> rant along the same lines. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anne >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been >>>>>>>> around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do >>>>>>>> with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The >>>>>>>> article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to >>>>>>>> the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not >>>>>>>> sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened >>>>>>>> to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that >>>>>>>> can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done >>>>>>>> far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they >>>>>>>> had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that >>>>>>>> it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a >>>>>>>> fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously >>>>>>>> inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has >>>>>>>> no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? >>>>>>>> Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay >>>>>>>> more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That >>>>>>>> wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If >>>>>>>> they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would >>>>>>>> consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft >>>>>>>> has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do >>>>>>>> with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty >>>>>>>> ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not >>>>>>>> the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for >>>>>>>> PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB >>>>>>>> doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, >>>>>>>> because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they >>>>>>>> can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I >>>>>>>> suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have >>>>>>>> you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's >>>>>>>> outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just >>>>>>>> because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts >>>>>>>> like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their >>>>>>>> first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that >>>>>>>> stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to >>>>>>>> reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably >>>>>>>> run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes >>>>>>>> or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to >>>>>>>> uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, >>>>>>>> reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then >>>>>>>> reinstall JAWS 11. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the >>>>>>>> ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this >>>>>>>> corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a >>>>>>>> proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always >>>>>>>> be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when >>>>>>>> talking about the actual lawsuit itself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone >>>>>>>> from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly >>>>>>>> good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just >>>>>>>> sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on >>>>>>>> a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A >>>>>>>> company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, >>>>>>>> and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still >>>>>>>> useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Nic >>>>>>>> Skype: Kvalme >>>>>>>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >>>>>>>> AIM: cincinster >>>>>>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>>>>>>> Facebook Profile >>>>>>>> My Twitter >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple >>>>>>>>> is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of >>>>>>>>> the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. >>>>>>>>> Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, >>>>>>>>> who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements >>>>>>>>> after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth >>>>>>>>> waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
