Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes: > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 02:34 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > You don't need to have a title, an @mailman email address, or a commit bit > > to do any of that. > > > > You just do it. > > Exactly! But that is not really what this convo is all about. No, that is *all* this conversation is about. You need to persuade us to give you what you want. If you don't speak to our interests, you won't get it. > You keep taking it into the "end user support" arena, I'm focused > on product preservation. I care very little about product preservation for Mailman 2 (it's complete subordinate to user service in the sense that it would be a nice to have if there's zero risk to user support), and you need *nothing* from us to do it, anyway. Pragmatically, users are *all* I care about in the Mailman 2 world. And I'm quite sure that's what the rest of GNU Mailman (the software development project) thinks, too. Note well: I am not their elected representative, but I believe my statements are generally representative of their beliefs about the user base and their values. If you think otherwise, get in touch with them off list, since they aren't posting that I'm full of nonsense on list (ie, maybe they're just not listening here). > There are multiple roles, as you well know, why do you feel I need > to fit in the role you define for me? You don't need to fit into any role in the Mailman project. You have the code, you have access to Launchpad or Github or Gitlab or SourceForge, and you have and will have access to this mailing list. But if you don't care about users, you're not part of the team. You're a lone ranger. > Who's users? ;-) The Mailman Project's users, and in particular subscribers and admins of Mailman 2 sites and lists. > I think, based on this thread, you are going to have a really tough > time ever retiring from Mailman. >From "Mailman"? Not even envisioned at present, except in the sense that I'm old enough to be aware of my own impending death being closer to me than my birth. >From *Mailman 2*? No problem at all. This is not my first rodeo, my friend. You clearly do not understand what I've been saying about the costs and benefits of user support and why GNU Mailman has chosen the development and user support strategies we have. I'm not saying you should agree. Certainly not that you should abandon your own interests. But you seem to have a completely unrealistic idea of how things work in open source and how you could get at least some of what you want in this particular case. > > "Manage just the new features" sounds like a terrible deal for the > > vast majority of admins and subscribers, and a very bad look for GNU > > Mailman. > Let GNU Mailman, the FSF, and the Mailman community decide that and > don't prevent them from deciding that. Have a clue, Jim. Really. Abhilash, Mark, I, and several others *are* GNU Mailman -- there's nothing else it *could* be. The FSF has nothing to do with decisions about what code we distribute, that's not what GNU is about. The Mailman community is *not* going to be part of the decision-making process, except that a small, unrepresentative sample of individual community members post here, and GNU Mailman is listening to them. And in fact, there will not even be a decision in some sense. That is, we could lift the feature freeze at any future date, and then we could reverse that decision afterward. As for me preventing anything, I can't prevent anything -- if it's at all a close call, Abhilash will decide -- and I am not trying to do so. I am *advocating* that 1. the current feature freeze is, on balance, *good* for the community as a whole even though there's a very vocal group (I take it on faith that you're not the only one ;-) that wants the freeze lifted, and 2. that lifting the freeze *as proposed on this list* is *not* in the interest of GNU Mailman or the community and I am stating that 3. due to my own preferences and constraints, I will retire from Mailman 2 support if I don't get credible assurances that Mark and I will get substantial help with user support to offset the likely increase in needs, and to ensure that user support is maintained at high levels even as we reduce our commitments as currently planned. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
