On 18 August 2017 at 19:25, Aaron C. de Bruyn <aa...@heyaaron.com> wrote: > As a postmaster or abuse contact, I'm not clicking on random links > sent to me by robots to verify anything. ;) > > There's a difference between *rejecting* mail sent to an address and > *accepting* it and routing it to /dev/null. > >> "Pretending that this is for the "RFC" good sounds like a joke" > > If I recall correctly, the RFC says you have to *accept* mail for > those addresses--it doesn't specify what you are required to do with > them, or how long it should take.
Are you serious? or simply joking? > Should they block any address that doesn't respond in 15 minutes? > Maybe an hour? How about a week? How often to you re-verify? Is it > a big company like Microsoft that might staff their abuse team 24/7, > or is it a small outfit where they have an abuse contact but maybe you > caught him or her during their week or two of vacation every year? They already have timings for most of they checks. IMO they could even wait 1 month and then list you. If you succesfully unlist then you get some more time the next time (like any blacklist deal with removal). I keep repeating facts: - postmaster@app.mydomain works and have a human dealing with it but rfc-clueless list it because "mydomain" (not app.mydomain) have MX records on google and those MX does not accept "postmaster" email (with no domain specification). But my email is postmaster@app.mydomain not postmaster@mydomain and the RFC clearly doesn't mix MX for an host with MX for the domain of that host (and BTW postmaster@mydomain works too). - postmas...@alice.it instead is not listead while it /dev/null any email. This means that rfc-clueless does not answer to my "wish" unlike you replied. I don't care to define if rfc-clueless is right or not doing that, it simply doesn't do what I wished. I didn't mention rfc-clueless until you said it was the answer to my wish. While I explained WHY it didn't answer to my wish I also explained WHY I think it is not even giving "useful" informations (are you really more happy when a domain HAVE postmaster@ devnulled instead of rejecting postmaster? IMO it is worse because you keep waiting an answer). Also, AFAIK the message rfc-clueless send to test emails is not RFC compliant because it doesn't have an "header" and from my reading of the latest spec, even the obsolete MIME syntax now requires an header and an header include at least a ":" char and the rfc-clueless message (from their logs) does not include one. > Anyways, if you want to start your own blacklist based on sending out > validation links, feel free. I didn't ask your permission to start my own list ;-) I simply stated that I hope someone will start a dnsbl for people dev/nulling postmaster and YOU said that rfc-clueless is a solution while it is NOT an asnwer to my dream. enjoy the weekend, Stefano > > -A > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Stefano Bagnara <mai...@bago.org> wrote: >> It is not difficult to detect addresses that never respond.. you send >> them a link to a page protected by captcha, if they don't clic or >> fails the captcha then the email is unsupervisioned. They do something >> similar to "unlist".. >> >> Please note that I wrote: >>> Maybe there should be a dnsbl for domains /dev/nulling postmaster@ >>> address and not only for the one not accepting postmaster/abuse >>> recipient ;-) >> And you answered that rfc-clueless was an already existing dnsbl for >> that: I gave them a try but they failed, so I posted the "result". >> >> The fact is that they list my "app.mailvox.it" domain because >> "mailvox.it" shares an MX with "Gmail" (when postmaster@ both domains >> works and is read) and gmail does not accept email to "postmaster" >> (with no domain specification) but they don't list alice.it that is >> dev-nulling postmaster. Pretending that this is for the "RFC" good >> sounds like a joke, to me, but they host the list, so they have the >> right to write the rules (I can simply explain people why I suggest to >> not use that list). >> >> So I still hope someone will make a list for domains that dev/null >> email to postmaster@domain because rfc-clueless "POSTMASTER" list, >> unfortunately, doesn't do that. >> >> Stefano >> >> >> On 18 August 2017 at 17:53, Aaron C. de Bruyn <aa...@heyaaron.com> wrote: >>> Hmm...I've used rfc-clueless.org for years, and it's predecessor >>> rfc-ignorant for a long time before that and I've never had problems >>> with it. >>> >>> Does the postmaster@ address exist (i.e. accepts mail) or does it say >>> that postmaster@ doesn't exist? >>> >>> I think they only track domains that refuse to accept postmaster@, >>> abuse@, etc...not domains that accept it and never respond because >>> it's difficult to automatically detect addresses that never respond. >>> >>> -A >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 2:06 AM, Stefano Bagnara <mai...@bago.org> wrote: >>>> On 7 August 2017 at 17:27, Aaron C. de Bruyn <aa...@heyaaron.com> wrote: >>>>> It exists: http://rfc-clueless.org/ :) >>>> >>>> I confirm it doesn't work: http://rfc-clueless.org/lookup/alice.it >>>> I submitted it to the postmaster last time I didn't get an answer... >>>> it shown as pending for a while and then disappeared. >>>> Still I have to find someone that ever received an answer after >>>> writing to their postmaster@ address. >>>> >>>> Stefano >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Stefano Bagnara >>>> Apache James/jDKIM/jSPF >>>> VOXmail/Mosaico.io/VoidLabs >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -A >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Stefano Bagnara <mai...@bago.org> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Lindani, >>>>>> >>>>>> we're an italian ESP and we never had success contacting Alice.it >>>>>> postmaster. >>>>>> Alice.it is the freemail domain of the biggest telecom operator in >>>>>> italy (Telecom Italia, now named TIM). >>>>>> >>>>>> We never had major deliverability issues (blocks/junking) there, but >>>>>> sometimes their server are very slow (don't know if it is throttling >>>>>> or simply overload) and queues get very big (last time was the past >>>>>> february and lasted a couple of weeks). We use a very very high >>>>>> timeout for them (20 minutes, instead of 2 minutes we use for everyone >>>>>> else) because we experienced double deliveries due to timeout on our >>>>>> side after the ending DATA "." (the very point the RFC says the server >>>>>> should try to answer as fast as possible to avoid double delivery). >>>>>> >>>>>> Once (a couple of years ago) I also tried contacting them because of a >>>>>> bad vulnerability in their webmail but I received no answers to that >>>>>> too... >>>>>> >>>>>> I also have friends buying servers from Telecom Italia (so they are >>>>>> customers) and they also had no success getting in touch with a >>>>>> postmaster for alice.it . >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe there should be a dnsbl for domains /dev/nulling postmaster@ >>>>>> address and not only for the one not accepting postmaster/abuse >>>>>> recipient ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> You may want to try >>>>>> postmaster@(alice.it|aliceposta.it|tim.it|telecom.it|telecomitalia.com|retail.telecomitalia.it) >>>>>> >>>>>> With abuses you may want to try >>>>>> ab...@retail.telecomitalia.it >>>>>> ab...@telecomitalia.it >>>>>> >>>>>> and the only one that ever answered an email to us (a lot of years ago): >>>>>> staff...@telecomitalia.it >>>>>> >>>>>> Their only known interactive communication channel is twitter: >>>>>> @tim_official ... maybe you will have success tweeting them in >>>>>> "public". >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck and let us know how it goes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Stefano >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Stefano Bagnara >>>>>> Apache James/jDKIM/jSPF >>>>>> VOXmail/Mosaico.io/VoidLabs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2 August 2017 at 16:10, Lindani Tshabangu via mailop >>>>>> <mailop@mailop.org> wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone who can assist with a contact at Alice.it or point me to where I >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> get one? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lindani Tshabangu >>>>>>> Deliverability EMEA | GROUPON >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ltshaba...@groupon.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> mailop mailing list >>>>>> mailop@mailop.org >>>>>> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mailop mailing list >>>> mailop@mailop.org >>>> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org >> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
