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On 03/12/2014 05:25 PM, Matthew Russo wrote: > The question to Louis and Clay is then, WHAT is that relevance, however > partial, of the above? IOW, what is the analysis here? I've yet to hear > much of one concerning the political and economic designs of the EU/NATO/US > with regard to Ukraine. IMHO that is the result of at least 3 factors: 1.) It is the political struggle within Ukraine which is the most relevance factor. 2.) Of the external imperialist factors, the Russian interference is the most important, by a long shot, I mean by a long shot. 3.) You probably think the US & NATO are much more central to the struggle in Ukraine, or between Ukraine and Russia, than it is, and your definition of "much" varies accordingly. It goes without saying, (or maybe it doesn't? - to your point) that EU/NATO/US are imperialist powers and will operate in their own interests. They would like to see Ukraine less dependent on Russia, as would most Ukrainians. They would like to see them in their military alliance, which is another matter entirely. They want other things as well and not all of them are bad. The Ukrainians who think they will have more democratic rights and a brighter economic future in the EU than under Russian domination are probably right, if it comes down to a choice between those two. > > And in addition, as people commenting from afar, If mainly commenting is what you do. I find that in this age of global communication, there are many ways to not only support, but participate in revolutionary struggles all over the world. The possibilities for practicing internationalism are as they never have been before. Do you know that there were global activist networks that connected individual NATO commanders to revolutionary fighting groups on the ground in Libya? [And let me say in advance that I hope I don't have to endure any of those comments that will force me to repeat again how Ho Chi Minh accepted weapons from the US, and Giap fought side-by-side with OSS officers.] Do you know there is a group, somewhere, it doesn't matter, that gathers sniper reports in Aleppo via twitter and places them on a Google map that is redistributed to Aleppo and saves lives? > mostly from the US, one of > the imperialist contenders, I've never felt a special responsibility for being among the oppressed of an imperialist contender. In the fight against imperialism, I focus on supporting revolutionaries where I can do the most good and where I can do the most damage to imperialism. > our own interventions are by material > definition internationalist from the get-go. didn't get that. > In this vary real context, it > is a violation of the most elementary revolutionary morality to not analyze > and denounce the actions of your own imperialist countries as they pertain > to the situation, What a self-centered look at the situation! Take the situation in Syria for example. For three years the people there have been locked in a desperate struggle to liberate themselves from a murderous mad dog regime. What do you think they need most? Someone who will "analyze and denounce" a relatively minor player in their situation, or someone who spots sniper positions on a map? Okay, but I've done a lot to "analyze and denounce the actions of US imperialism" [not that I own it] Both from exposing the two-faced nature of US imperialism and pointing out [in contradict to most of the "Left"] that really Obama has been playing good cop to Putin's bad cop. How Obama has supported Assad's gas murder always <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-obama-has-supported-assads-gas.html> Obama's Real Syria Policy: Endless War <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/10/obamas-real-syria-policy-endless-war.html> The Courtship Continues: Obama stopped French strike on Assad <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-courtship-continues-obama-stopped.html> The Courtship Continues: Obama's New Gift to Assad <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/09/the-courtship-continues-obamas-new-gift.html> How Obama Helped Assad Kill with Poison Gas in Syria <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/09/how-obama-helped-assad-kill-with-poison.html> Win-Win for Assad as Obama Response to CW Mass Murder Put on Hold <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/08/win-win-for-assad-as-obama-response-to.html> Obama Denied Gas Masks to Assad's Victims <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/08/obama-denied-gas-masks-to-assads-victims.html> Obama's Dilemma and Assad's Opportunity <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/08/obamas-dilemma-and-assads-opportunity.html> Barack Obama's Courtship of Bashar al-Assad <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/09/barack-obama-courtship-of-bashar-al_4519.html> Barack Obama's Courtship of Bashar al-Assad Exposed! <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/02/barack-obama-courtship-of-bashar-assad_6351.html> Obama "green lights" Assad's slaughter in Syria <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/08/updated-obama-lights-assad-slaughter-in_4655.html> Assad's Redline and Obama's Greenlight! <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/08/assad-redline-and-obama-greenlight_2292.html> Chemical weapons use in Syria, Has Obama's red-line has been crossed? <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/breaking-chemical-weapons-use-reported_2829.html> AP weighs in on Obama's Green Light for Assad's slaughter in Syria <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/ap-weighs-in-on-obama-green-light-for_1624.html> Syria: Obama's moves Assad's "red line" back as SOHR reports 42,000 dead! <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/syria-obama-moves-assad-line-back-as_1581.html> SecState John Kerry and his "dear friend" Bashar al-Assad <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/secstate-john-kerry-and-his-friend_6865.html> How Obama's /'No MANPADS for you'/ policy in Syria is backfiring <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-obama-manpads-for-you-policy-in_8827.html> More thoughts on Obama's 'No MANPADS for you!' policy <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/01/more-thoughts-on-obama-manpads-for-you_1371.html> Obama: Did the CIA betray Assad's opposition in Syria? <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/02/obama-did-cia-betray-assad-opposition_1831.html> <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/02/obama-did-cia-betray-assad-opposition_1831.html> Obama planning drone strikes against Assad's opposition in Syria <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/03/obama-planning-drone-strikes-against.html> How Obama helps Assad: US tried to start war between FSA & al Nusra Front <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-obama-helps-assad-us-tried-to-start.html> My friends in SAC tell me that Obama's failure to carry forward even the red-line threat did more to damage the revolution than all of Assad's recent offensives, so if my writings, which are read by Syrian revolutionaries, have helped to warn them about the duplicitous nature of US imperialism, and prepared them for this betrayal, then I feel I've made some contribution. [ Just a few hours after Obama's red-line statement, I blog it was a green light for Assad's continuing slaughter, and that metaphor was widely repeated among the revolutionaries.] If I do it with a Marxist analysis and call it that, Syrians [and Libyans] may learn from that and at least know that not all "Marxists" are hostile to their revolution. Most so-called "Marxists" who analyze and denounce the actions of their own imperialist countries, don't even try to support, let alone participate in these revolutions. Instead they end up supporting the fascist regimes and denouncing the revolution, partly because they lack left leadership, all the while causing the revolutionaries to wonder why they would want it. Now why is that? Anyway, I'd better end here. I've been asked by SAC to speak for 20 min at their SoCal March 15th program. I, the open communist, have been asked to present the political side of the Syrian struggle, so I need to get busy preparing my remarks. Clay ________________________________________________ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
