Comrade f580, You are most correct here on several points. One, it is a complete waste of time and energy to argue with Melvin because, secondly, he completely distorts what is said with the intent to misconstrue things. Firstly, I said it was the extermination of a class which is absolutely true. The dictatorship of the proletariat completely subdues the former ruling-class and as a class they are exterminated as they are eradicated and abolished as a class. When this class is completely abolished there is no more class struggle, hence, the ability of the socialist State to wither away and communism is fully realized. I never said anything about the "extermination of individuals of a class" as Melvin claims. The more he tries to refute the essence of the class struggle the more he embelishes what has been said. This is no accident as it is a most definite pattern in his strategy of discourse. Secondly, my point about slavery not being THE issue is still valid and I refuse to recant it. My comment was made in reference to Lincoln's position on slavery vs the preservation of the Union. Slavery was not THE issue, in other words, it was not the only issue and this is evidenced in that it took almost 2 years for Lincoln to move the question of slavery to the forefront. Until that time he cared less about whether slavery was eradicated or not and that is historically documented and undeniable. Lincoln's position prior to making slavery the forefront issue was racist and supported by historical documentation which also is evidenced through historical documentation that he favored "colonization" of the slaves in another country altogether because he refused to accept the equality of blacks with whites. There is no denying this and there were many other issues or contradictions that were at play as well that he and every other revisionist historian refuses to address or downplays. It is because of the historical records and documentation that anyone can access that fully proves slavery, in Lincoln's mind and that of most of the Northerners who enacted Black Codes, did not make slavery THE SINGULAR ISSUE. Even when Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation historical records show that he did so as a "war measure" and not because of an overwhelming moral conviction. I recant nothing in either of the 2 subject matters. Melvin is a self-righteous egotist that will see only what he wants to see, therefore, he intentionally distorts and twists everything and takes them out of context in order for him to puff up his chest in a false sense of obtaining some kind of moral high ground. Yes, it is a waste of time arguing with someone of this character because they never will portray the truth but only contort to serve their own opportunistic agenda. This has been his method ever since joining this list and I therefore have no use for this opportunist. Fraternally Mark Scott
--- On Thu, 12/23/10, frankenstein580 <frankied...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: frankenstein580 <frankied...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [MLL] I denounce the statement below advocating . . . . . To: "For the reaffirmation of Marxism-Leninism" <marxist-leninist-list@lists.econ.utah.edu> Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 3:43 AM WL: "You state it is I and the intelligence agencies of the bourgeoisie, specifically the secret police, that is responsible for what Mr. Mark Scott wrote, because what he wrote was as slip of the tongue, which he REFUSE TO SAY WAS A SLIP OF THE TONGUE." COMMENT: You misconstrue things that people say. This is NOT what I said. Sometimes it is a waist of time discussing with you. Let others be the judges, since I don't have time to play around with you. You are a worker. I am a worker. YOur politics is anti working class, for no other class has proven to be able to defeat capitalism like our class has, outside of the wars for national liberation. The working class is not engaged in a symbiotic type relationship with the bourgeoisie rendering it conservative or reactionary, like you and others peddle. So, thank YOU for your support. f580 --- On Wed, 12/22/10, waistli...@aol.com <waistli...@aol.com> wrote: From: waistli...@aol.com <waistli...@aol.com> Subject: Re: [MLL] I denounce the statement below advocating . . . . . To: marxist-leninist-list@lists.econ.utah.edu Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 5:43 PM In a message dated 12/22/2010 6:53:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, frankied...@yahoo.com writes: There was class war during the Bolshevik uprising, and there was class war during war communism. It is the Imperialists and not members of this list who practice terrorism. It is YOU and not the bourgeois secret police who insists on sustaining what could have been a slip of the tongue or a mere haphazard comment. Marxist would have understood what he meant... or at least, what we, as Marxist, understand by the role of force or violence in history. Comment Yes there was class war as political insurrection during the period of the Bolshevik taking of state power. Class war is broader than insurrection and the taking of power. Yes, there was Civil war and war against imperial invasion during the period of war communism. You state it is I and the intelligence agencies of the bourgeoisie, specifically the secret police, that is responsible for what Mr. Mark Scott wrote, because what he wrote was as slip of the tongue, which he REFUSE TO SAY WAS A SLIP OF THE TONGUE. Remember this is the same guy - Scott, who says that slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War and was an afterthought, which is the issue that raised this entire discussion. Remember, I called Mr. Scott a redeemer historian - which he is, because he said SLAVERY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CIVIL WAR and was an after thought. Scott then went berserk, - his standard response to anyone that holds a different opinion, and started quoting material from 2005, which is when HE - not I, raised the issue of exterminating individuals constituting a class. Then I responded to this old controversy from 2005, which Scott raised, and yet YOU claim it is I and the secret police that is raising the controversy? Thanks for your support WL. _______________________________________________ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list Marxist-Leninist-List@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list _______________________________________________ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list Marxist-Leninist-List@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list _______________________________________________ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list Marxist-Leninist-List@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
