----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frakes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: MD: CD quality compared to MD quality
> "Les" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I do not believe Mike is confused but sounds like someone is
>
> I am assuming you are referring to me ;-)
Now I am confused cause I do not remember who wrote what anymore, LOL
>
> >...and the last direct reply to my explanation "rested my case" for
> >me whether you knew it or not, LOL
>
> How so?
Someone said, "all bets are off unless we compare same with same"
>
> >I never said ATRAC degraded anything people can hear
>
> You never said that, but it's true (at least for some people).
I will never believe this until someone proves it and more than a few have
tried, come on over to Oak Harbor WA and try.... I'll offer 100.00 to
anyone who can come tell me the difference in my studio; but if you loose we
go to the Outback (A HIGH END restuarant, LOL) on your bill.....
> >Next time you are in a hi fi shop ask for a demo and compare the same
> >cd on a high end Onkyo or HK unit with high end speakers...
>
> Most serious audio people would not consider Onkyo or HK to be "high end"
> -- there is little difference in audio quality between a good JVC CD
> player and a good HK CD player.
Anyone who knows audio equipment or who has ever sold audio equipment knows
better than this. While not the highest end Onkyo & HK are high end
consumer versions whereas JVC is NOT.. But you are right, there is little
difference in the sound quality which is what I tried to explain all along.
SO little and subtle you can only notice it at very low volume. Just try
the demo I mentioned if you have doubts...
What do you consider high end by the way??
>
> >The guys jumping on the volume issue and claiming they never listen
> >to theirs "that loud..."
>
> By the way, that wouldn't be me...
>
> >Consumer reports and others who do honest evaluations will claim
> >there is zero sound difference in CD players. I believed this for a
> >long time but now realize their tests were flawed because they were
> >listening to average speakers which are not capable of producing the
> >differences.
>
> Agreed. Consumer Reports is great for some things. But when it comes to
> "high-end" audio, they aren't very useful. They are good for people on
> very limited budgets trying to buy the "most reliable" unit out of a few
> inexpensive units that are all of pretty much equal quality.
>
>
> >In any case, nothing should ever be noticed on an average system
>
> Completely true, and that's what I've been saying from the beginning ;-)
>
> >...and only those of us willing to spend the bucks on speakers alone
> >that most would flinch at for an entire home theater including a
> >large screen tv would (or should) even care about such minute
> >differences.
> That's where I disagree. While the average consumer doesn't care, you
> don't have to spend obscene amounts of money just to get a "high-end"
> system that can reveal the differences.
I can agree on most of what you are saying but Again, I am very curious what
you consider "high end"; if JVC decks are equal to Onkyo then are radio
shack speakers in the same group as Klipsch?? Please understand, I believe
JVC gear is very good in their price range and I have owned and been very
satisfied with some of their gear. My portable MD is a JVC and I would not
swap it for any Sony or Sharp (yet).. I even used one of their single cd
decks in my road system (rack mounted) for years of trouble free use; never
skipped on me one time. And, as I keep saying; at any volume where people
are concentrating on music there was never any concern over a sound
difference. The same can be said about MD or I would not be using it.
Since 1995 (and an inferior ATRAC version to today's) there has not been one
person who could ever tell when I was playing an MD or CD out of thousands
of shows and tens of thousands of listeners. Of course a mobile DJ system
is not the same as a home system but both my systems are professional with
the weakest points being the MD decks as I have not yet invested in a pro MD
deck. Denon is the only company I know of that makes a real (with no SCMS)
one and I will not touch anything with their name on it. This could be an
entirely new debate so I won't go there; just suffice it to say I can not
trust their gear to stand up to my demands. Sony has a model they call pro
but I understand it still employs SCMS which really peaves me off.
>
>
> >Anyone who thinks they can hear a difference
>
> ...or who actually can...
>
> >would not believe anything other than what they hear anyway.
>
> No, the issue isn't that people *think* they can hear a difference. The
> issue is that there *is* an empirical difference, and some people with
> some systems *can* hear the difference. If you can't, more power to you
> -- you enjoy the sound more than those people ;-)
>
> >...never mind that very expensive test equipment can't measure a lot
> >of what we "think" we hear
>
> Even the most expensive test equipment doesn't measure subtle differences
> well. The human ear is more sensitive than the most expensive "equipment"
> in the world.
How about +/- .0001 db; think you can hear that difference?? Or how about
5hz, think you can hear that? Have you ever had a hearing test? If
equipment can't outperform the human ear then how would we ever measure
human hearing? We do it every 3 months in the aviation world. This
statement is simply not true but it does "sound" good, LOL.. We can even
measure animal hearing which is superior to our own. I am curious about the
engineer who agreed with you on this one, engineer of what? Safe bet it
isnt audio equipment or even related.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word
"unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
