"...What do you think of the future of space stations?..." CB

You may not like my answer. What I THINK about it is that their future
is very dire. And the role of the US will continue to diminish.

I also have a strange intuition about the overall future of 'wo/man in
space' being very dire too, something about not being able to adapt.

IF huwo/manity survives, a low probability, it seems our 'travel' may
have to take some other form than what is commonly thought of now by
most.

Thank you for asking! I don't think anyone has ever asked me this
before, yet I've been contemplating it for a long time. And no, my
time is not spent walking the streets with a sign saying the end is
near! : - )

On Nov 6, 6:42 am, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Orn,
>
> Oh, I guess I jumped on any excuse to talk about aerospace/military, no
> abuse intended to you.  It is a shared hobby/career at my house, and I have
> met so many interesting people in that industry.  As you can tell, I am
> close to the military and have family and friends in most government
> agencies, and love to discuss them, good and bad.  Space propulsion is my
> favorite.
>
> Remember hearing about Avro Arrow but it was more for manned travel.  Geeks
> that designed it came out of Canada and started working for NASA....yep, 10
> years later "walkin on the moon".  Nice story:)  You would like this book...
>
> http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/Avroengineers.html
>
> What do you think of the future of space stations? Russia has a stick up its
> bum right now, so wonder how that will affect collaborations??
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:17 PM, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "...The original deployment system for North America..." - orn
>
> > Now I feel confused, used and perhaps abused. I was basing my comment
> > on what I thought was a documentary film a few years ago as well as
> > some online research I did at the time.
> > Now it appears that, even though there remains much misinformation
> > about the company, planes and cause of demise, the information may
> > have been a bit of mythomania. Specifically, I am talking about the
> > Avro Arrow. As I remember it, there were reports, films and
> > discussions about it's capability to launch satellites into space…now
> > I can't find the sources. So, will table it for now.
>
> > On Nov 5, 7:24 am, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Orn, I was referring to your own passage below in the reference to
> > satellite
> > > delivery systems...
>
> > > <<<The original deployment system for North America was going
> > > to be a plane and 'business' and nationalism got in the way.>>>
>
> > > that response I sent was directly pointed to this sentence.  The original
> > > deployment vehicles were always to be rocketry.  Big, fast, and ugly.
> > They
> > > used rocket delivery instead of aircraft for the obvious reasons, as I am
> > > sure you know.  Mostly, I think, because we could test missile
> > capabilities
> > > simultaneously demonstrating how far our reach extended...on both sides
> > of
> > > course.  Cold War contest.
>
> > > very important stuff, those satellites. practical uses for military and
> > > civilians.  This tech birthed GPS, which was only used by the military
> > > until, what, the last 10 years?  Not a bad innovation.
>
> > > Ode to Arthur C. Clarke:)
>
> > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:58 PM, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >wrote:
>
> > > > "... Flight delivery? ...not practical and not used until after cold
> > > > war a bit.... " - CB
>
> > > > I don't know what you are apparently criticizing here, sorry.
>
> > > > And, when it comes to sputnick, I still remember the headlines. I even
> > > > bought a Revel model of it. And, in the late 50s, I was most likely
> > > > one of the very few in Indiana to purchase and read magazines from and
> > > > about Russian rockets. Everyone else was afraid to be called a 'Red'
> > > > if they even picked them up, let alone read them.
>
> > > > On Nov 4, 1:30 pm, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > <<<You next ask, rhetorically perhaps, about satellite technology.
> > Again,
> > > > > even the original satellites (Russian) were developed in academic
> > > > > settings. The original deployment system for North America was going
> > > > > to be a plane and 'business' and nationalism got in the way. Of
> > > > > course, since the vast majority of all satellites in use today are
> > for
> > > > > covert military use, your question is almost a tautology>>>>
>
> > > > > Satellite delivery and deployment at that time was rocket based
> > mostly
> > > > > because everyone was worried about missile development and using
> > rocketry
> > > > > just made one more workable link in the test system.  Flight
> > delivery?
> > > > > ...not practical and not used until after cold war a bit....
>
> > > > > this was the method similar to Russia's sputnik delivery...
>
> > > > >http://history.nasa.gov/sputnik/expinfo.html
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 2:49 PM, ornamentalmind <
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >wrote:
>
> > > > > > CB, when I used the term cancer, it was an analogy in response to
> > your
> > > > > > (also hyperbolic and comparative as truth) post:
> > > > > > "…I know this little note is a spoof, but in a global society how
> > can
> > > > > > we Not police the planet? that is like letting the guy down the
> > street
> > > > > > corner beat the shit out of his wife and kids in his front yard and
> > > > > > watching without response. Oh, yeah diplomatic
> > > > > > relations...sanctions...." – CB on 10-28
>
> > > > > > Looking at my post in context, I didn't say that I was 'against
> > > > > > anything military'. In general, I accepted the reality of the
> > > > > > situation. "I do not deny that today, yesterday, tomorrow, a year
> > from
> > > > > > now as well as a hundred years ago there were, are and will be
> > those
> > > > > > who wish to do harm to other people including the people currently
> > in
> > > > > > the USA. When this 'truth' is 'solved' by becoming State Terrorists
> > in
> > > > > > a perpetual war, a greater 'truth' arises and that is that 'we'
> > > > > > perpetually are attracting an even greater amount of ire. This
> > 'truth'
> > > > > > has always been known." – Orn – 10-28
>
> > > > > > I do find the Orwelian notion of perpetual war against a method
> > rather
> > > > > > than people for political purposes with obvious and well known
> > results
> > > > > > to be as close to 'sin' as one who does not embrace the notion of
> > sin
> > > > > > can find.
>
> > > > > > Also, my direct observation about the two methods of:
> > > > > > 1. Agreement
> > > > > > 2. Force
> > > > > > …would seem to be reality based in this context too.
>
> > > > > > You continue with a list of organizations including Homeland
> > Security.
> > > > > > Here, since even many within the organization think it was at the
> > very
> > > > > > best ill-conceived, and at the worst an impediment for response, a
> > > > > > bloated and grossly expensive bureaucracy that in fact does nothing
> > > > > > better, same people in functions etc. I question why you even
> > > > > > mentioned it.
>
> > > > > > The Army Corp of Engineers are well known to emulate beavers. They
> > > > > > have built bridges for decades, many of which were not necessary,
> > many
> > > > > > of which were poorly conceived and implemented. [see: New Orleans
> > > > > > among a legion of other places]  This is all well documented and
> > > > > > available for all to know. So, at least in this way I am against
> > this
> > > > > > group.
>
> > > > > > I don't know much about the National Guard, other than it is not
> > only
> > > > > > being grossly abused and misused, leaving the 'nation' at risk to
> > > > > > 'homeland' issues from natural disasters to the omnipresent
> > 'invasion'
> > > > > > across our boarders.
>
> > > > > > This leaves the Coast Guard. Again, since it is mainly being used
> > for
> > > > > > the 'War on Drugs'….. And, how is that war going? (irony)
>
> > > > > > Little of the above criticizes the individuals in each
> > organization.
> > > > > > More to the point the different group functions, methods,
> > > > > > administration and leadership as well as how each is directed by
> > the
> > > > > > current regime, are more of what should be examined.
>
> > > > > > When it comes to the Arctic, sadly this area is on the way out. Oh,
> > do
> > > > > > you reject global warming? If so, I'll have to support this I
> > guess.
> > > > > > When it comes to the Antarctic, see:
> > > >http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1093824/
> > > > > > A WONDERFUL and informative movie. The clips alone are worth the
> > time.
>
> > > > > > You say that deep-sea mapping wouldn't exist w/o the military.
> > While I
> > > > > > don't know for sure, my guess is that either it would be done by
> > the
> > > > > > educational system, 'publish or die', scientific community, other
> > > > > > countries or by the private sector IF it is in fact worthwhile in
> > any
> > > > > > objective sense.
>
> > > > > > You next ask, rhetorically perhaps, about satellite technology.
> > Again,
> > > > > > even the original satellites (Russian) were developed in academic
> > > > > > settings. The original deployment system for North America was
> > going
> > > > > > to be a plane and 'business' and nationalism got in the way. Of
> > > > > > course, since the vast majority of all satellites in use today are
> > for
> > > > > > covert military use, your question is almost a tautology.
>
> > > > > > When one does a review of US history, we did quite well without a
> > > > > > standing army for quite a while. In fact, it was proposed by
> > Jefferson
> > > > > > to explicitly outlaw one in the Constitution. A good overview of
> > the
> > > > > > situation and foundational ideas can be found here:
> > > > > >http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0505-08.htm
>
> > > > > > Next, you ask the Faustian question of "…Sanctions only work if
> > they
> > > > > > are backed up by potential force. Would you privatize all of it?.."
>
> > > > > > First, we can do an analysis of 'sanctions'. However, since there
> > are
> > > > > > thousands of 'em, I won't take the time to do so now. IF you have
> > > > > > specific ones you are interested in, we can do that. As to
> > privatizing
> > > > > > the military, that has already happened. Well, not every last
> > person,
> > > > > > but everything from the mess tent to toilet paper, from Blackwater
> > to
> > > > > > Haliburton. And, of course, the private sector is always more
> > > > > > expensive. Articles about the cost of the war are ubiquitous. Here
> > is
> > > > > > one from a year or so ago:
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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