NO I wasn't suggesting 240V. In calculating voltage drop voltage, distance, voltage and current under load are calculated to determine the size of conductor which is acceptable.
Interesting note, if this was 50 years ago the lake house was wired, at that time often metal water lines were used as a primary ground ond a driven ground didn't exist. I've encountered such houses where at some time water lines were replaced and NO ground exists. Most often I've discovered this when a homeowner was having trouble with computer hardware and surge protection. In some older homes wiring is kinda like tinkering with my old 300. Rather than "fix something that ain't broke" I get this "wild hair" to monkey with something or replace an old part with new and I cause a a major repair. > From: "R A Bennell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:32:20 -0600 > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another Generator Question > > Does your response suggest that you think it would work better to run 240V? > That would mean changing the line I > guess to triplex but that might be a good plan anyway. Have to wonder about > the copper that has been hanging there > for so long. Does it get stretched and does the wind action start to cause > damage that will one day cause it to > break? Somehow I feel safer with lower voltage on something like a pump that > is full of water and connected to the > lake and the house by a tube of water. Lower voltage feels like it should be > safer but that may be an illusion of > sorts. > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Timothy Robinson > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:16 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another Generator Question > > > Oh, punching in 120V X 150' (one way) voltage drop calculator says s/b > minimum #6 cu to stay withing acceptable 3% voltage on a 20A circuit. But > heck, "It has been like that for almost 50 years." Most pump motors are > built to operate with a voltage drop. Look at the submerged pumps in > 300/400' wells. > > I'd still want at least ground fault protection on any convenience outlets. > >> From: "R A Bennell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> >> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:48:12 -0600 >> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another Generator Question >> >> Interesting. I have a similar sensation if not scenario. I have never >> received >> a shock from the pump but have noted >> a minimal shock sensation from the boat if I use the battery charger on the >> boat battery with the cord plugged into >> the pump house. Not sure if the issue is the pumphouse. Might just be the >> aluminum boat sitting in the water. Can't >> recall if the batttery was connected to the boat or if it was disconnected. >> It >> was probably connected and as such >> grounded in some manner such that the battery charger is electrifying the >> boat >> itself. Doesn't hurt but is a bit of >> an odd sensation and one wonders if it is a safe thing to do. >> >> In terms of the pumphouse line - it is probably 150 feet or so from the >> pumphouse to the house and the copper line >> is solid rather than stranded and quite heavy. I would say more than #10 so >> probably #8. It has been like that for >> almost 50 years. So far so good but I still wonder about more grounding. >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Timothy Robinson >> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:55 PM >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another Generator Question >> >> >> OH... here's a similar situation. A friend renovated an old loft space and >> added an old porcelain cast iron sink and an older electric range. He was >> going for a 20' "Deco" look and chose the old appliances. >> >> The circuit for the range was two wire 240V. Originally the wiring in the >> building was in EMC (metal conduit) which served as a ground however he used >> a section of PVC (non-metallic) to move that range circuit. >> >> The range worked fine. All 240V elements and oven heated. The problem was >> the old range had a clock which was 120V and required a neutral. In those >> days (code differs now) it was customary that a range or dryer circuit was >> three wire with the third, neutral serving as the ground. >> >> Whenever Phil would touch the adjointing sink (copper supply lines) and >> touch the range or even touch a cast iron pot on the range he would receive >> a shock. In effect his body was serving to complete the circuit for the >> clock. >> >>> From: "R A Bennell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> >>> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:56:02 -0600 >>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> >>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another Generator Question >>> >>> How about an outbuilding with only 2 wire service - hot and neutral - for >>> 120V? Should I also have a ground rod? >>> That is the situation with the pumphouse at the lake. I was looking at it >>> last >>> summer and thinking that there >>> should be either a 3rd wire from the house or a ground rod down at the >>> pumphouse attached to the panel. The system >>> out there is old and there are 2 copper wires that go out of the gable on >>> the >>> house to a series of 3 poles down the >>> hill to the pumphouse where there is a small panel with fuses. I went so far >>> as to buy the ground rod and haul it >>> out there last summer but never got to install it. The alternative might be >>> to >>> switch the wire to triplex and tie >>> the bare wire to ground at the house and use the 2 covered wires as the hot >>> and neutral. Don't really need 240V at >>> the pumphouse although I suppose the pump motor could be set to run on >>> either >>> voltage. >>> >>> Randy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Timothy Robinson >>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 5:31 PM >>> To: Mercedes Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another Generator Question >>> >>> >>> If the feeder to the panel is four wire and the neutral and ground separate, >>> that panel in the outbuilding is considered a "sub-panel." There should be >>> no ground rod. >>> >>> If the feeder to the outbuilding is a three wire, legs A & B (on a 240V two >>> phase) and a neutral, the panel in the outbuilding is considered a >>> "sub-service" and there should be a driven ground. >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> >>>> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:44:32 -0500 >>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another Generator Question >>>> >>>> So, if I have an outbuilding, wired into my main panel in my house, >>>> that outbuilding should not have a ground rod on *its* panel, but I >>>> should instead extend a ground from my house to the outbuilding? >>>> >>>> Allan >>>> >>>> Fmiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>> >>>>> It seems than at Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:56:47 -0600, R wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Should the generator itself be grounded? I can't help thinking >>>>>> that there should be a connection from the generator frame to >>>>>> a good ground. I have considered driving a ground rod in and >>>>>> either keeping a ground wire on it all of the time or setting >>>>>> up something that would permit a quick ground connection at >>>>>> either end. >>>>> >>>>> Yes. >>>>> >>>>> Or no. >>>>> >>>>> There should be one and only one place were ground and neutral >>>>> are bonded together. This is usually done at the first load >>>>> center (circuit breaker panel). This is also the usual place for >>>>> the wire from the ground rod to also be bonded to the panel >>>>> ground. >>>>> >>>>> If you are connecting a generator through this breaker panel, >>>>> don't add another ground rod. >>>>> >>>>> If, however, you are running extension cords from the generator >>>>> to each of the appliances, then it would be a really good idea >>>>> to bond the generator neutral to generator ground and a ground >>>>> rod. >>>>> >>>>> The reason is that earth is not a very good conductor, thus if there >>>>> is a lightning strike there will be a voltage difference (possibly >>>>> thousands of volts) between the ground rods. And and that difference >>>>> will cause current flow in your wires. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Philip >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________ >>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>>> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >>>>> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> 1983 300D >>>> 1966 230 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________ >>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >>>> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >>> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >>> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
