So I'm wrong for telling someone - who is telling someone else to be quiet - to be quiet. That's what you said. If you'd wanted to make sense, you should have condemned Bill all the more, for telling someone who was just speaking their mind to shut up - otherwise you're just being irrational.
You might as well call police guilty for trying to protect us ordinary people from the violence of others. If they shoot a criminal who has their gun trained on an innocent person, is it wrong? I'm not the police, or any sort of authority on the list - that's most definitely not the point of my post. But, in the analogy, you're shooting me for shooting the criminal. It doesn't make sense. I get what you were trying to say. It's wrong. Jason On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Erik Fisler <erikfw...@msn.com> wrote: > > you know what I meant Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700 >> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa >> 1794 >> >> Erik, >> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in. >> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in, >> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe >> in - doing that is wrong. >> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we >> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be >> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they >> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what >> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world. >> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as >> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because >> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized >> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just >> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he >> believes in.' >> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must >> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense >> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical. >> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to >> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I >> don't like their insults and nasty messages. >> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing >> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to >> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in >> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some >> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list. >> Jason >> >> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.' >> >> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it, >>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words... >>> >>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever >>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they >>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG. >>> >>> [Erik] >>> >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700 >>>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold >>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794 >>>> >>>> Bill, >>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I >>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than >>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone >>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who >>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers. >>>> >>>> But that's my point, really. >>>> >>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly >>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns >>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who >>>> make others feel unwelcome. >>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking >>>> foresight, probably in many cases. >>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never. >>>> >>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals >>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors. >>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third >>>> time's the charm, right? >>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has >>>> that function. >>>> >>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed >>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have >>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has >>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and >>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve >>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will >>>> actually find. >>>> >>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here >>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The >>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually >>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that >>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the >>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering. >>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good >>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it >>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot. >>>> >>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely >>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now >>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox >>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good >>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he >>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you >>>>> talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting >>>>> like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do >>>>> a history check and drop the subject. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700 >>>>>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >>>>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold >>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794 >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill, >>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if >>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given >>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and >>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept >>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his >>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you >>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming >>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had >>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The >>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity >>>>>> to harass him. >>>>>> And you call him annoying. >>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or >>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to >>>>>> change that. >>>>>> >>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark, >>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the >>>>>> line, that things are not going to change. >>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second >>>>>> world wars. That's about how long. >>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam >>>>>> War. >>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the >>>>>> futility of their own actions. >>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to >>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him >>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care >>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being, >>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in >>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than >>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse >>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's >>>>>>> actions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in >>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how >>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him, >>>>>>>> or the situation in general. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> are on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" >>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold >>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa >>>>>>> 1794 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hola, >>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be >>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the >>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if >>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a >>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses. >>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more >>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not >>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way, >>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything. >>>>>>>> I was apparently right. >>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in >>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how >>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him, >>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a >>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth >>>>>>>> the spam would be nice. >>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, >>>>>>>>> sSteve >>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a >>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have >>>>>>>>> managed the >>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless >>>>>>>>> you've >>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all >>>>>>>>> about. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with >>>>>>>>> Internet >>>>>>>>> Explorer 8. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. >>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009 >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list