My, my, my.
What an interesting disgusting....er, I mean
Discussion.......
Michael
> From: Erik Fisler <erikfw...@msn.com>
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:15:07 -0700
> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
> 1794
>
>
> you know what I meant Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>> 1794
>>
>> Erik,
>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
>> in - doing that is wrong.
>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
>> believes in.'
>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
>> Jason
>>
>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>>
>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>>
>>> [Erik]
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com
>>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>>
>>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>>
>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>>
>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>>> time's the charm, right?
>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>>> that function.
>>>>
>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>>> actually find.
>>>>
>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>>
>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you
>>>>> talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting
>>>>> like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do
>>>>> a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com
>>>>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam
>>>>>> War.
>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's
>>>>>>> actions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not,
>>>>>>>>> sSteve
>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have
>>>>>>>>> managed the
>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless
>>>>>>>>> you've
>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all
>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with
>>>>>>>>> Internet
>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B
>>>>>>>>> 037MSN55C0701A
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>> pdates1_042009
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