I know you are witty, we all do but don't bunny hop around my points by playing word games. This isn't the bar scene from Goodwill Hunting. I don't want to argue with someone I respect. I don't need to tell Bill to be quiet because you already did. No one wants to block Steve, they just want him to slow down. And what I meant was you, Jason, where wrong for telling someone not to stand up for what they believe in. I did NOT mean standing up for what you believe in is wrong. With that said I apologize for offending you if I did... Now lets get one with the Meteoritics... Love, Piece, and Afro Grease and all that mushy stuff. [Erik]
---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:23:48 -0700 > From: meteorite...@gmail.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa > 1794 > > So I'm wrong for telling someone - who is telling someone else to be > quiet - to be quiet. > That's what you said. > If you'd wanted to make sense, you should have condemned Bill all the > more, for telling someone who was just speaking their mind to shut up > - otherwise you're just being irrational. > > You might as well call police guilty for trying to protect us ordinary > people from the violence of others. If they shoot a criminal who has > their gun trained on an innocent person, is it wrong? > I'm not the police, or any sort of authority on the list - that's most > definitely not the point of my post. > But, in the analogy, you're shooting me for shooting the criminal. > > It doesn't make sense. > I get what you were trying to say. > It's wrong. > > Jason > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Erik Fisler wrote: >> >> you know what I meant Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700 >>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold >>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794 >>> >>> Erik, >>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in. >>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in, >>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe >>> in - doing that is wrong. >>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we >>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be >>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they >>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what >>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world. >>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as >>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because >>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized >>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just >>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he >>> believes in.' >>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must >>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense >>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical. >>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to >>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I >>> don't like their insults and nasty messages. >>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing >>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to >>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in >>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some >>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list. >>> Jason >>> >>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.' >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it, >>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words... >>>> >>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever >>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they >>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG. >>>> >>>> [Erik] >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700 >>>>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >>>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold >>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794 >>>>> >>>>> Bill, >>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I >>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than >>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone >>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who >>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers. >>>>> >>>>> But that's my point, really. >>>>> >>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly >>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns >>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who >>>>> make others feel unwelcome. >>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking >>>>> foresight, probably in many cases. >>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never. >>>>> >>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals >>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors. >>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third >>>>> time's the charm, right? >>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has >>>>> that function. >>>>> >>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed >>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have >>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has >>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and >>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve >>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will >>>>> actually find. >>>>> >>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here >>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The >>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually >>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that >>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the >>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering. >>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good >>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it >>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot. >>>>> >>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely >>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now >>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox >>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good >>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he >>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence. >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you >>>>>> talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting >>>>>> like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please >>>>>> do a history check and drop the subject. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700 >>>>>>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >>>>>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold >>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill, >>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if >>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given >>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and >>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept >>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his >>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you >>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming >>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had >>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The >>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity >>>>>>> to harass him. >>>>>>> And you call him annoying. >>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or >>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to >>>>>>> change that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark, >>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the >>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change. >>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second >>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long. >>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam >>>>>>> War. >>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the >>>>>>> futility of their own actions. >>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to >>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him >>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care >>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being, >>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in >>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than >>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse >>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's >>>>>>>> actions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in >>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how >>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him, >>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the >>>>>>>> fence you >>>>>>>> are on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" >>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold >>>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa >>>>>>>> 1794 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hola, >>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be >>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the >>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if >>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a >>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses. >>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more >>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not >>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way, >>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything. >>>>>>>>> I was apparently right. >>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in >>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how >>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him, >>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a >>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth >>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice. >>>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, >>>>>>>>>> sSteve >>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have >>>>>>>>>> managed the >>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless >>>>>>>>>> you've >>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all >>>>>>>>>> about. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with >>>>>>>>>> Internet >>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. >>>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009 >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
