You seem to know why everybody is wrong - why don't you have an answer? ----------------------------------------
*From: *Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]> *To: *Mifnet <[email protected]> *CC: *Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]> *Date: *2025-09-26T06:18:19Z *Subject: *[Mifnet 🛰 74331] Re: AA empty flights > Why? 120-minute ETOPS is sufficient for the North Atlantic, though 138-minute > ETOPS closes a hole. There’s no need for 240-minute ETOPS over the Atlantic, > and in conversations with Airbus I’ve been told they see no need for no more > than 180 for the A321XLR. > >  -- Karl > >> On Sep 25, 2025, at 11:06 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Could this be an attempt to get from 180 to 240 ETOPs? >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> *From: *Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]> >> *To: *Mifnet <[email protected]> >> *CC: *Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]> >> *Date: *2025-09-26T05:58:10Z >> *Subject: *[Mifnet 🛰 74329] Re: AA empty flights >> >>> AA didn’t use an A321XLR for the "qualification” flights so that’s not it. >>> >>> As I noted, AA already has ETOPS-180 for the A321 for Hawaii, though only a >>> subset of their fleet is ETOPS qualified. (In contrast, so far as I know, >>> all of United’s current 737 fleet is ETOPS qualified.) >>> >>> True, northern and western European destinations do not */require/* ETOPS >>> from the northeastern US, but it’s painful to do non-ETOPS. >>> >>>  -- Karl >>> >>>> On Sep 25, 2025, at 10:39 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Pethaps, since they were flying only to northern and western European >>>> destinations, they did not require ETOPS, as American does in order to go >>>> further south across the Atlantic. Or maybe they already had ETOPS >>>> qualification with those types from Hawaii and Caribbean/LatAm operations, >>>> respectively. >>>> >>>> A321XLR may be considered a new airframe/engine combination from A321, for >>>> ETOPS purposes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> *From: *Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]> >>>> *To: *Mifnet <[email protected]> >>>> *CC: *Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]> >>>> *Date: *2025-09-26T05:07:07Z >>>> *Subject: *[Mifnet 🛰 74327] Re: AA empty flights >>>> >>>>> I’d dismiss this story as nonsense had it not been published by reliable >>>>> sources, rather than Simpleton Flying. >>>>> >>>>> It still doesn’t make sense. United didn’t do anything like this when >>>>> they started flying the 737 MAX most of the way across the Atlantic. >>>>> Neither did JetBlue with their A321 flying to Europe. >>>>> >>>>> ETOPS-proving might make sense, except AA already has 180-minute ETOPS on >>>>> the A321 (for Hawaii)—and it didn’t stop them from flying a non-ETOPS >>>>> A321 to Hawaii a decade ago: >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> This whole thing baffles me. >>>>> >>>>>  -- Karl >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Revised: 20250507 >>>> >>>> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >>>> >>>> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >>>> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the >>>> effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >>>> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >>>> >>>> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >>>> >>>> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a >>>> privilege--not a right. >>>> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >>>> author. >>>> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >>>> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >>>> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other >>>> Mifnet members. >>>> >>>> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >>>>  https://www.mifnet.com/ >>>> >>>> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >>>>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>>>  OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>>> [email protected]?subject=leave >>>> >>>> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >>>>  [email protected] >>>> >>>> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >>>>  [email protected] >>>> >>>> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all >>>> list traffic into 1-3 >>>>  messages daily. See instructions at: >>>>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>>> >>>> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>>>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>>> >>>> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>>>  [email protected]?subject=help >>>> >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>>>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >>>> >>>> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>>>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >>>> >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>>>  https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Revised: 20250507 >> >> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >> >> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, >> please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >> >> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >> >> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not >> a right. >> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >> author. >> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other >> Mifnet members. >> >> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >>  https://www.mifnet.com/ >> >> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>  OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >> [email protected]?subject=leave >> >> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >>  [email protected] >> >> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >>  [email protected] >> >> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all >> list traffic into 1-3 >>  messages daily. See instructions at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>  [email protected]?subject=help >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >> >> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
