--Eric
From my check airman friend:
Partly true . All done now. They were A321 NXs since we haven't received our 1st XLRs yet. I was part of the initial cadre. Made 4 trips PHL-EDI 24 Ckps and tech pilots now trained21 round trips.
I'm on a trip that's going badly so only a few texts and photos from him. As soon as I can I'll call him and see what else he has to say.
On 09/26/2025 4:06 AM EDT Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]> wrote:ROFL! Tom, you know I can spot the WTFs even if I can’t solve the puzzle.In this case I’m left with few explanations other than that AA is daft. Perhaps Eric can enlighten us, if there’s a sane explanation.---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karl
On Sep 25, 2025, at 11:29 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet <[email protected]> wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to know why everybody is wrong - why don't you have an answer?
From: Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]>
To: Mifnet <[email protected]>
CC: Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]>
Date: 2025-09-26T06:18:19Z
Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 74331] Re: AA empty flightsWhy? 120-minute ETOPS is sufficient for the North Atlantic, though 138-minute ETOPS closes a hole. There’s no need for 240-minute ETOPS over the Atlantic, and in conversations with Airbus I’ve been told they see no need for no more than 180 for the A321XLR.-- Karl
On Sep 25, 2025, at 11:06 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet <[email protected]> wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could this be an attempt to get from 180 to 240 ETOPs?
From: Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]>
To: Mifnet <[email protected]>
CC: Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]>
Date: 2025-09-26T05:58:10Z
Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 74329] Re: AA empty flightsAA didn’t use an A321XLR for the "qualification” flights so that’s not it.As I noted, AA already has ETOPS-180 for the A321 for Hawaii, though only a subset of their fleet is ETOPS qualified. (In contrast, so far as I know, all of United’s current 737 fleet is ETOPS qualified.)True, northern and western European destinations do not require ETOPS from the northeastern US, but it’s painful to do non-ETOPS.
-- Karl
On Sep 25, 2025, at 10:39 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet <[email protected]> wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pethaps, since they were flying only to northern and western European destinations, they did not require ETOPS, as American does in order to go further south across the Atlantic. Or maybe they already had ETOPS qualification with those types from Hawaii and Caribbean/LatAm operations, respectively.
A321XLR may be considered a new airframe/engine combination from A321, for ETOPS purposes.
From: Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]>
To: Mifnet <[email protected]>
CC: Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]>
Date: 2025-09-26T05:07:07Z
Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 74327] Re: AA empty flightsI’d dismiss this story as nonsense had it not been published by reliable sources, rather than Simpleton Flying.It still doesn’t make sense. United didn’t do anything like this when they started flying the 737 MAX most of the way across the Atlantic. Neither did JetBlue with their A321 flying to Europe.ETOPS-proving might make sense, except AA already has 180-minute ETOPS on the A321 (for Hawaii)—and it didn’t stop them from flying a non-ETOPS A321 to Hawaii a decade ago:…This whole thing baffles me.-- Karl
…
Revised: 20250507
You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list.
The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated:
https://wardell.us/url/mifbit
All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies:
1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right.
2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author.
3) The tone of discussions is collegial.
4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste.
5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members.
* The Mifnet WEB SITE is:
https://www.mifnet.com/
* To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave
* Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to:
[email protected]
* You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at:
[email protected]
* Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3
messages daily. See instructions at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email:
[email protected]?subject=help
* View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies
* View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems
* View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
Revised: 20250507
You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list.
The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated:
https://wardell.us/url/mifbit
All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies:
1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right.
2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author.
3) The tone of discussions is collegial.
4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste.
5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members.
* The Mifnet WEB SITE is:
https://www.mifnet.com/
* To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave
* Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to:
[email protected]
* You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at:
[email protected]
* Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3
messages daily. See instructions at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email:
[email protected]?subject=help
* View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies
* View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems
* View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
Revised: 20250507
You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list.
The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated:
https://wardell.us/url/mifbit
All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies:
1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right.
2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author.
3) The tone of discussions is collegial.
4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste.
5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members.
* The Mifnet WEB SITE is:
https://www.mifnet.com/
* To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave
* Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to:
[email protected]
* You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at:
[email protected]
* Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3
messages daily. See instructions at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email:
[email protected]?subject=help
* View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies
* View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems
* View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
Revised: 20250507
You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list.
The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated:
https://wardell.us/url/mifbit
All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies:
1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right.
2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author.
3) The tone of discussions is collegial.
4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste.
5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members.
* The Mifnet WEB SITE is:
https://www.mifnet.com/
* To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave
* Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to:
[email protected]
* You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at:
[email protected]
* Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3
messages daily. See instructions at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/
* For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email:
[email protected]?subject=help
* View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies
* View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at:
https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems
* View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at:
https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507
You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
