Be careful One of the most enjoyable training courses I ran was in Aberdeen and as most of the hotels were full because of an oil conference I stayed at a funny place called Aboyne, Deeside Lodge...wonderful.
I always said I wanted to go back one day ;-) BR Colin (have multimeter will travel ;-)) On 11 May 2012 16:06, Owen Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > Colin, > You're my hero! > > Cheers, > Owen. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* e-mail colin.jones5857 <[email protected]> > *To:* mogtalk2 <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2012 3:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [mogtalk2] Miscellany > > Hi Owen > > No thanks required at all, just the thought of another worry gone is > thanks enough ;-). I did not come up with all these fixes alone either, > many are the work of several of us spanner jugglers working together being > real nerds sending emails in the night about codes and misfires and to be > honest just plain and simple detective work. > > Just to help you sleep here is the story of the EVAP diagnostics and > conclusion. On holiday in France with Christopher BK, Richard Rebain and > wives. I arrived last at the Gite and JUST after filling up, that's a > misnomer as the petrol attendant filled the car and was so busy admiring he > washed the back of the car with petrol, it was overflowing from the filler > neck! (don't think the village had even heard of blow back arresters on the > pumps!). Anyway after throwing his screen wash bucket of water over the > rear of the car I drove off, no problem. > > Next morning, off for a drive, 3 miles down the road and the car sputtered > coughed and almost stalled.....then it cleared and was fine for 30 seconds > and did it again....5 or 6 times so I returned to the Gite to > think.......(and panic). > > OK, the feeling was just like someone pulling out the choke and there was > a strong petrol smell, it was a soft chop (electrical faults feel hard, > fuel feels soft) Could not see anything of course so started to think > where excess fuel could come from. On a whim I unplugged the hose from the > EVAP purge valve and it was full of fuel. I shook out what I could and > started the car. Stood watching it run then hunt and cut then run etc. > etc. it was clear it was cyclical. I made a test lamp from a spare bulb > and wire and bridged the electrical plug on the purge valve and started the > engine, the bulb lit when the purge valve was energised and a couple of > seconds later the car spluttered,the bulb went out and again after 3-5 > seconds the car cleared. I then had another think, syphoned out one gallon > to lower the fuel level, had a terrible job getting the EVAP canister out > and emptied another pint of fuel out of it, left it to dry in the sun, blew > through the purge lines and reassembled. Problem gone, it only ever > happened once more after I had overfilled the car by mistake with a fuel > can and then I left it running to purge itself. > > Fault finding is just gathering evidence and understanding the systems. > Lots of fault codes are not actual faults its just that the programmers set > parameters and if the system steps outside of allowed values the code is > stored. Later systems are far more sophisticated and have a priority learn > function, that is if its a none safety related code (and even some safety > like the BMW ABS low voltage codes) if the system sees 5 cycles of no more > code found it wipes the codes and puts out the warning light. Some codes > (like the multiple misfire) is used to cover a multitude of sins as just > about everything we have discussed as a possibility for your car would look > to the ECU as if its been caused by a misfire, hence the code stored. > > I don't always know the answers but am always happy to help or at least > try to, these systems are really good you know, its just that we did not > have fault codes on good old carbs and coil ignition systems or we would > have had even more codes stored ;-). > > BR > > Colin > On 11 May 2012 11:58, Owen Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > >> ** >> Colin, >> You are a shining star and an example to us all ! >> >> One thing that seems to bring it on is NEARLY stalling. That would be >> totally consistent with your explanation. >> >> Full marks, A*. Go to the top of the class. >> >> For many years I have sought and failed to find the answer. Now I shall >> sleep easy in my bed knowing that I can, indeed, ignore it. >> >> Many, many thanks, >> Owen. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* e-mail colin.jones5857 <[email protected]> >> *To:* mogtalk2 <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2012 7:08 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [mogtalk2] Miscellany >> >> Owen >> >> That's a rouge 'Multiple Misfire' code used on the GEMS system, ignore >> it. Its stored when the system detects a misfire (measured as a sudden >> change in rotational speed). Tn Tops have a 'mass accelerometer' that >> measure he vertical movement of the vehicle (this bit is mega boring and >> most don't believe it anyway) imagine a rotating engine, pistons going up >> and down.....hit a bump and the piston speed relative to the block alters, >> the maths are boggling so car manufacturers fit these mass accelerometer >> (sometime on the bulkhead (Volvo) or sometimes part of the ECU (Bosch >> Motronic). >> >> Because of the way a Morgan likes to spend as much time in the air as on >> the ground the mass accelerometers (like the knock sensors) are not >> fitted. This is ONE of the factors that cause the code to be stored. A >> software fix was supposed to solve this but seemed not to, plus the system >> is so sensitive if it detects a reverse signal from the crankshaft sensor >> (engine running backwards) it stores the only code it can, a multiple >> misfire.....of course the engine does not run backwards but when you switch >> off if a cylinder is coming up to TDC on compression it has been known to >> kick back a few degrees and that's enough to trigger the code, this is >> ANOTHER reason for the rouge code. >> >> Finally the other well known one is the advanced EVAP system that is on >> the GEMS cars, it has a vent tank for the fuel tank and it is vented to the >> inlet manifold via a 'Purge Valve' which opens under certain conditions >> (normally just after engine warms up). If you overfill the tank fuel >> bleeds into the vent tank, the purge valve opens and not only fumes but >> fuel is drawn into the inlet manifold/plenum chamber. the system tries to >> adapt when the Lambda sensors see a rich mixture, cant as its outside of >> the adaptive window value max setting and so thinks there must be a misfire >> (plugs etc. not firing) so stores the only code its been given which is >> 'multiple misfire'. >> >> To say the factory is unaware of this is not exactly correct, maybe they >> have forgotten, I went to see Mark Baldwin (had an appointment) back in >> 2002 when I had this problem and traced it on my car, it was at the request >> of my Dealer....Mr. Baldwin failed to keep the appointment. I then wrote a >> 3,000 word test and rectification note for the MMC and sent it to the >> factory, nothing was ever sent to the dealers that I know of. >> >> David Poole wrote the definitive guide to GEMS and several of us proof >> read it and suggested amendments and it really is the 'bible' for GEMS, >> again it was offered to MMC and the Dealerships and nothing was taken up so >> it sits on GOMOG for everyone to access. >> >> The information is out there Owen and its been tried to get it to the >> dealers. >> >> BR >> >> Colin >> >> On 10 May 2012 18:15, Owen Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> Tim, >>> I like the idea of what you are saying. I have a fault code >>> reader/cancelling device. It cost a lot more than £30, but that's by the >>> by. I bought it from Halford's. 'Nuff said. >>> >>> Now, to demonstrate to me that what you say is true, tell me what this >>> fault code means: P.1316; and how I cure the fault. It's one I get often >>> from my 4.0 litre, Land Rover V-8 powered, 2003 +8. >>> >>> If you can tell me, you can also tell the MMC - they don't know, nor do >>> any of the dealers I've taken it to. Nor does the AA. >>> >>> I just cancel the code and carry on as before. Nothing seems to happen >>> except that it occurs again, sooner or later. >>> >>> I gather Rover used to charge about £5 grand for their Testbook set-up. >>> I'm not prepared to spend that on diagnostic equipment. >>> >>> Owen. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> *From:* Tim Harris <[email protected]> >>> *To:* mogtalk2 <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:52 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [mogtalk2] Miscellany >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10 May 2012 10:33, Chas. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Of course on the technical front there is much less you can do at home >>>> with modern electronics than you could with points and tappets. >>>> >>> >>> Sadly, this myth has been well and truly sold to many people, who >>> honestly believe that you can't work with modern cars at home. >>> >>> Routine servicing is much easier than it used to be, spark plugs only >>> have to be changed once in a blue moon, tappets, never need attention, all >>> you really have to do is change the oil and check the fluids - and yet >>> strangely the costs we get charged by the dealer are vastly higher than >>> ever they used to be. >>> >>> Cheapest entry point is 30 quid or so, which buys a code reader with >>> which you can interpret any stored fault codes and clear them (a process >>> which a dealer would charge 70 quid plus for). Plug the reader into the >>> OBDII socket, download the codes, look up what they mean, fix the offending >>> part. Perfect for identifying and cleaning or replacing a dirty MAF sensor >>> or similar. >>> >>> If you want to spend a bit more money, then a couple of hundred quid on >>> a laptop, a copy of the relevant software (e.g. Rovacom for a GEMS +8) and >>> you can furtle to your heart's content, really getting to grips with what >>> your engine's up to. >>> >>> If you want to get properly ambitious, then you can buy a complete >>> replacement ECU from someone like Omex (who supply MMC), Emerald, or MBE, >>> and completely remap and reprogram your entire performance envelope. >>> >>> And if you want to go completely OTT, you can even build you own engine >>> management system from scratch with Megasquirt. >>> >>> I fully understand that messing about with one's engine is not >>> everyone's cup of tea - and fair enough, I wouldn't try to convince anyone >>> to do stuff they don't want to, but I would hate to think there are people >>> out there who think 'I wish I could work on my modern Mog like I used to >>> with my old one". >>> >>> It's a different set of skills, sure, but certainly not beyond an >>> average enthusiast mechanic. I reckon that adjusting one's fuelling map >>> with a laptop is a heck of a lot more straightforward than trying to >>> understand the complexities of twin DCOEs. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> View posts on The Mail Archive >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> View posts on The Mail Archive >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4990 - Release Date: 05/10/12 >> >> View posts on The Mail Archive >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > View posts on The Mail Archive > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4990 - Release Date: 05/10/12 > > View posts on The Mail Archive > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- View posts on The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ [http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/] Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=22459785&id_secret=22459785-4a39ddf8 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
